ChatterBank0 min ago
Plead Guilty Or Not
Hi, I hope someone can help, my partner and I had a huge row a couple of weekends ago, I stormed home, he came in we had a huge argument, I threw his phone etc....he showed me a bottle of wine which I had drank before going out and said I cannot believe you drank this, I pushed him, he pushed me back and I bit him very hard on leg and arm, he shoved me against a glass unit, the next thing we saw blood, I went down stairs, he went back to bed and shoved the bottle in the cupboard in the bedroom to make his point the next day!
When I went downstairs I realised there was quite a lot of blood and went to the girls next door, they called an ambulance, I said I had no recollection of how I did it, the 999 called the police also as they saw it as an incident, the police came and spoke with me, I said I didn't know, one went next door to my partner who was still in bed ( he thought I was still downstairs) and asked him what had happened, he said he may of struck me with the bottle but didn't think so,the policeman wrote on his notes that he had hidden the bottle at the back of the cupboard, he hadn't and why would he if he didn't know police where involved he came back in next door and said to me, he said he hit you with the bottle...
I went and got some glue on my head ( the policeman in reception at hospital smirked at nurse and said Lambrini night! partner was arrested, I got home at 5 am, he was at station didn't think he needed a solicitor, 2 WPC's came to me that morn and asked for statement, i said I wasn't charging him and didn't want to, they asked my events and said they totally tally and he will prob be home at 12 with a telling off, at 5 i got a call saying he is charged with ABH, no contact etc,,, its his house so i am staying with his mother.
His solicitor said this will go to Crown Court, my partner has never been in any trouble whatsoever, this was an argument that resulted in the cut, he is wondering if he pleads guilty at Crown will it go away and not drag on for months, can he make a lesser plea at Magistrates for common assault...... and if it ends in Crown would he get a prison sentence with a first offence.
Our lives are on hold, we cannot move on because of this and help greatly appreciated.
thanks
When I went downstairs I realised there was quite a lot of blood and went to the girls next door, they called an ambulance, I said I had no recollection of how I did it, the 999 called the police also as they saw it as an incident, the police came and spoke with me, I said I didn't know, one went next door to my partner who was still in bed ( he thought I was still downstairs) and asked him what had happened, he said he may of struck me with the bottle but didn't think so,the policeman wrote on his notes that he had hidden the bottle at the back of the cupboard, he hadn't and why would he if he didn't know police where involved he came back in next door and said to me, he said he hit you with the bottle...
I went and got some glue on my head ( the policeman in reception at hospital smirked at nurse and said Lambrini night! partner was arrested, I got home at 5 am, he was at station didn't think he needed a solicitor, 2 WPC's came to me that morn and asked for statement, i said I wasn't charging him and didn't want to, they asked my events and said they totally tally and he will prob be home at 12 with a telling off, at 5 i got a call saying he is charged with ABH, no contact etc,,, its his house so i am staying with his mother.
His solicitor said this will go to Crown Court, my partner has never been in any trouble whatsoever, this was an argument that resulted in the cut, he is wondering if he pleads guilty at Crown will it go away and not drag on for months, can he make a lesser plea at Magistrates for common assault...... and if it ends in Crown would he get a prison sentence with a first offence.
Our lives are on hold, we cannot move on because of this and help greatly appreciated.
thanks
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>>>His solicitor said this will go to Crown Court
Did he say why? Cases generally go to Crown Court for the following reasons:
1. There are complex legal issues involved, which the Magistrates think they aren't qualified to deal with. (I can't see that being relevant here).
2. The defendant pleads not guilty and exercises his right to be tried by a jury, rather than by the Magistrates. (From what you've written, that also seems to be unlikely).
3. The Magistrates are of the opinion that, if the defendant is found guilty, their sentencing powers won't be strong enough. (i.e. they consider that a prison sentence of greater than 6 months might be required).
So it seems likely that the solicitor is of the opinion that the offence could result in a substantial prison sentence. However that seems rather odd as you appear to have described a 'Category 2' offence (with 'lesser harm' but, because of the use of a weapon, 'higher culpability'). Where a first-time offender is convicted after a trial, the Judge must work from a 'starting point' of 26 weeks imprisonment and then vary that (depending upon the circumstances of the case) up as high as 51 weeks imprisonment or as low as a 'low level' Community Order. If the defendant pleads guilty custodial sentences can be cut by one third or, for example, a 'low level' Community Order substituted in place of a 'high level' one.
My guess is that the Magistrates might well decline jurisdiction (and pass the case to the Crown Court) but that the Judge will then pass a non-custodial sentence (or pass a custodial one but suspend it) as Judges usually do their utmost to keep first-time offenders out of prison.
Pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity will certainly speed things up (and reduce the chances of a custodial sentence) but it usually takes many months for any case before the Crown Court to reach a conclusion. (9 to 18 months is common for 'not guilty' pleas but even where the defendant pleads guilty cases can still take many months).
See pages 11 to 14 here to read what the Judge will have before him when considering sentencing:
http://
Did he say why? Cases generally go to Crown Court for the following reasons:
1. There are complex legal issues involved, which the Magistrates think they aren't qualified to deal with. (I can't see that being relevant here).
2. The defendant pleads not guilty and exercises his right to be tried by a jury, rather than by the Magistrates. (From what you've written, that also seems to be unlikely).
3. The Magistrates are of the opinion that, if the defendant is found guilty, their sentencing powers won't be strong enough. (i.e. they consider that a prison sentence of greater than 6 months might be required).
So it seems likely that the solicitor is of the opinion that the offence could result in a substantial prison sentence. However that seems rather odd as you appear to have described a 'Category 2' offence (with 'lesser harm' but, because of the use of a weapon, 'higher culpability'). Where a first-time offender is convicted after a trial, the Judge must work from a 'starting point' of 26 weeks imprisonment and then vary that (depending upon the circumstances of the case) up as high as 51 weeks imprisonment or as low as a 'low level' Community Order. If the defendant pleads guilty custodial sentences can be cut by one third or, for example, a 'low level' Community Order substituted in place of a 'high level' one.
My guess is that the Magistrates might well decline jurisdiction (and pass the case to the Crown Court) but that the Judge will then pass a non-custodial sentence (or pass a custodial one but suspend it) as Judges usually do their utmost to keep first-time offenders out of prison.
Pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity will certainly speed things up (and reduce the chances of a custodial sentence) but it usually takes many months for any case before the Crown Court to reach a conclusion. (9 to 18 months is common for 'not guilty' pleas but even where the defendant pleads guilty cases can still take many months).
See pages 11 to 14 here to read what the Judge will have before him when considering sentencing:
http://
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has a policy of continuing prosecutions for domestic violence with or without the co-operation of the alleged victim wherever possible. The choice whether to prosecute is not yours. So to answer your questions:
“ he is wondering if he pleads guilty at Crown will it go away and not drag on for months“
The matter can only go to Crown Court if the charge remains at ABH and the venue of Crown Court is decided in the process outlined by Chris. His plea should be entered at the Magistrates’ Court and a guilty plea will speed matters up.
“ can he make a lesser plea at Magistrates for common assault…”
Whether to make the charge the less serious one of common assault is a matter for the CPS. His solicitor may persuade the CPS to reduce the charge in return for a guaranteed guilty plea. Common Assault can only be dealt with at the Magistrates’ Court.
“... and if it ends in Crown would he get a prison sentence with a first offence.”
From your description of events and from Chris’s information I believe it unlikely.
“ he is wondering if he pleads guilty at Crown will it go away and not drag on for months“
The matter can only go to Crown Court if the charge remains at ABH and the venue of Crown Court is decided in the process outlined by Chris. His plea should be entered at the Magistrates’ Court and a guilty plea will speed matters up.
“ can he make a lesser plea at Magistrates for common assault…”
Whether to make the charge the less serious one of common assault is a matter for the CPS. His solicitor may persuade the CPS to reduce the charge in return for a guaranteed guilty plea. Common Assault can only be dealt with at the Magistrates’ Court.
“... and if it ends in Crown would he get a prison sentence with a first offence.”
From your description of events and from Chris’s information I believe it unlikely.
Hi, Buenchico and New Judge,
Thanks for taking the time to reply,
Firstly Buenchico, I am assuming his solicitor thinks he is going to plead not guilty that is why, I know he said the CPS has put it at ABH so it does go to Crown Court.
New Judge, should he plead guilty? Can his solicitor ask at the Magistrates for a guilty plea of a lesser charge or ABH, are you saying if he pleads guilty to ABH at Magistrates it will get passed to Crown?
Sorry for all the questions my head is all over the place, I am guessing they think it is premeditated because of the bottle.
Did I make a mistake not saying much to the police officers who interviewed me, I just clarified events that had took place, I want to go in and say more, but I feel they will think he is making me (such a mess) I was terribly drunk as it was the anniversary of my Mums passing I did not mention this to the police..
Another question is although it seems so irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, we have the holiday of a lifetime booked its ten days after his Magistrates court date, I am guessing if it goes further we will still have the bail in place of not being allowed any contact so will be unable to pursue this holiday (would anyone know if we went)?? Also the longer it drags on one of us will have to find more permanent accommodation.................I am sleeping at his Mums
I am assuming all this is done to split us up, we are not fighting type of people, like I said nothing ever, the police even asked the girls next door and they clarified that.
How long is it likely to go on, if it goes to Crown, will it be dealt with on the first hearing?
Thanks again so much for your time I really do appreciate it.
thanks
Thanks for taking the time to reply,
Firstly Buenchico, I am assuming his solicitor thinks he is going to plead not guilty that is why, I know he said the CPS has put it at ABH so it does go to Crown Court.
New Judge, should he plead guilty? Can his solicitor ask at the Magistrates for a guilty plea of a lesser charge or ABH, are you saying if he pleads guilty to ABH at Magistrates it will get passed to Crown?
Sorry for all the questions my head is all over the place, I am guessing they think it is premeditated because of the bottle.
Did I make a mistake not saying much to the police officers who interviewed me, I just clarified events that had took place, I want to go in and say more, but I feel they will think he is making me (such a mess) I was terribly drunk as it was the anniversary of my Mums passing I did not mention this to the police..
Another question is although it seems so irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, we have the holiday of a lifetime booked its ten days after his Magistrates court date, I am guessing if it goes further we will still have the bail in place of not being allowed any contact so will be unable to pursue this holiday (would anyone know if we went)?? Also the longer it drags on one of us will have to find more permanent accommodation.................I am sleeping at his Mums
I am assuming all this is done to split us up, we are not fighting type of people, like I said nothing ever, the police even asked the girls next door and they clarified that.
How long is it likely to go on, if it goes to Crown, will it be dealt with on the first hearing?
Thanks again so much for your time I really do appreciate it.
thanks
Just wanted to add I have since heard partner spoke to his solicitor and told him he wanted to plead guilty, he asked why, and he said because he feels guilty it happened and I am hurt with a cut on my head, neither of us think it was the bottle I was standing in front of a glass unit with wood down the sides...
He asked can it get downgraded he said a 47 will inevitably not get downgraded because of the bottle, he said don't be too hasty in admitting guilt as he could be regretting that when he is sitting in prison, I think he needs another solicitor
thanks
He asked can it get downgraded he said a 47 will inevitably not get downgraded because of the bottle, he said don't be too hasty in admitting guilt as he could be regretting that when he is sitting in prison, I think he needs another solicitor
thanks
A few things need clarifying, snoopy.
Common Assault can only be dealt with in the Magistrates’ Court. There is no opportunity for it to be transferred to the Crown Court under any circumstances either for trial or sentencing.
The more serious ABH is an “either way” offence. A plea should be entered at the Magistrates’ court. In the event of a guilty plea the Magistrates will sentence the defendant and one of their options will be to send the matter to the Crown Court for sentencing. They will do this if they consider that the offence is too serious for their maximum powers (six months custody). In the event of a Not Guilty plea the matter of where the trial will be heard is managed. This decision is made using the following process:
(a) The Magistrates will assess the seriousness of the offence.
(b) They will retain jurisdiction if they believe that, in the event of a conviction, their powers of sentencing will be sufficient (although if, during the trial, evidence emerges to make the offence more serious the Magistrates still have the option to send the defendant to Crown Court for sentencing if convicted). If the Magistrates do retain jurisdiction, however, the defendant has the right to elect for trial by judge and jury at the Crown Court.
(c) The Magistrates will decline jurisdiction and send the matter to the Crown Court if they believe it is too serious for their maximum sentencing powers. If they do this the defendant does not have a right to a trial in the lower court.
Now a few matters which may help you understand the position further:
The matter of what offence to charge rests SOLELY with the CPS. They may be persuaded by your partner’s lawyer to reduce the charge to Common Assault in return for a guaranteed guilty plea. They have no obligation to enter into these discussions but they generally will. The Magistrates play no part in this debate. They deal only with the matter as it is put before them after the discussions have taken place.
The decision whether the matter goes to the Crown Court (either for trial or sentencing) is dependant SOLELY on the seriousness of the offence. ABH Offences which are of a “domestic violence” nature and involving a weapon (the bottle) may well pass that threshold. It will be up to the court to decide.
Guilty pleas (at either venue) always speed matters up. A guilty plea with the matter retained in the Magistrates Court will usually (for this sort of offence) result in the Bench asking the probation service to prepare a Pre-Sentence Report. This could take three or four weeks and the bail conditions will still apply during this period. If the Crown Court is involved or if a not guilty plea is entered the proceedings will take very much longer and again the bail conditions will apply during that period. Your partner’s lawyer may be able to persuade the court to relax the conditions but in cases of domestic violence this is most unlikely.
To be brutally truthful you have no control over any of these events. Whatever plea is entered and wherever the matter is dealt with it will be some time (anything from a few weeks to some months) before it is concluded and the bail conditions are likely to remain in place for the entire period.
Common Assault can only be dealt with in the Magistrates’ Court. There is no opportunity for it to be transferred to the Crown Court under any circumstances either for trial or sentencing.
The more serious ABH is an “either way” offence. A plea should be entered at the Magistrates’ court. In the event of a guilty plea the Magistrates will sentence the defendant and one of their options will be to send the matter to the Crown Court for sentencing. They will do this if they consider that the offence is too serious for their maximum powers (six months custody). In the event of a Not Guilty plea the matter of where the trial will be heard is managed. This decision is made using the following process:
(a) The Magistrates will assess the seriousness of the offence.
(b) They will retain jurisdiction if they believe that, in the event of a conviction, their powers of sentencing will be sufficient (although if, during the trial, evidence emerges to make the offence more serious the Magistrates still have the option to send the defendant to Crown Court for sentencing if convicted). If the Magistrates do retain jurisdiction, however, the defendant has the right to elect for trial by judge and jury at the Crown Court.
(c) The Magistrates will decline jurisdiction and send the matter to the Crown Court if they believe it is too serious for their maximum sentencing powers. If they do this the defendant does not have a right to a trial in the lower court.
Now a few matters which may help you understand the position further:
The matter of what offence to charge rests SOLELY with the CPS. They may be persuaded by your partner’s lawyer to reduce the charge to Common Assault in return for a guaranteed guilty plea. They have no obligation to enter into these discussions but they generally will. The Magistrates play no part in this debate. They deal only with the matter as it is put before them after the discussions have taken place.
The decision whether the matter goes to the Crown Court (either for trial or sentencing) is dependant SOLELY on the seriousness of the offence. ABH Offences which are of a “domestic violence” nature and involving a weapon (the bottle) may well pass that threshold. It will be up to the court to decide.
Guilty pleas (at either venue) always speed matters up. A guilty plea with the matter retained in the Magistrates Court will usually (for this sort of offence) result in the Bench asking the probation service to prepare a Pre-Sentence Report. This could take three or four weeks and the bail conditions will still apply during this period. If the Crown Court is involved or if a not guilty plea is entered the proceedings will take very much longer and again the bail conditions will apply during that period. Your partner’s lawyer may be able to persuade the court to relax the conditions but in cases of domestic violence this is most unlikely.
To be brutally truthful you have no control over any of these events. Whatever plea is entered and wherever the matter is dealt with it will be some time (anything from a few weeks to some months) before it is concluded and the bail conditions are likely to remain in place for the entire period.
Many thanks New judge for all the information, like you say sit and wait its awful though, can I ask one last question please, I never said much to the PC's about that night just clarification of the argument, would it be worth my going in and making a statement of my version of events or am I best leaving it alone?
thanks
Snoopy!
thanks
Snoopy!
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