Section 4a public order - help please

[Mas2669]

Today I have been charged with section 4a public order offence
This is in relation to allegations of threatening behaviour on my x partner.
She originally said I threatened to kill her by making gestures and speaking to hear through the window.
My 9 year old son was in the car and has now been ABE interviewed for which I think was the evidence In making the charge count.however I'm absolutely adamant I've done nothing wrong and my x has influenced my son, she had him 2 weeks before he was interviewed.
Looks like I'm going tombs challenging my own sonnet court in two weeks.
Does anyone know of any similar cases/ circumstances and what the outcome may be??
Appreciate any responses

[Mas2669]

Appreciate the reply.Thanks...Apologies about the spelling (IPhone).

Yes you're right, I did mean to say "looks like I'll be challenging my 9 year (nearly 10) year old Son" albeit statement or person.

Fingers crossed that someone from the site, as you say New Judge etc will provide some clarity and direction.

Thanks
mas2669

[New Judge]

Section 4a Public Order Act is a “summary” offence and can only be dealt with in the Magistrates’ court. (If the offence is racially aggravated it can be sent to the Crown Court). The maximum sentence is six months custody. However, the offence covers a wide range of seriousness but from what you describe this event seems to be at the least serious end (although the Magistrates which they may view this as, although the fact that your young son was present may aggravate the matter in their eyes). Sentencing guidelines suggest a fine of one and a half weeks net income (reduced by a third if you plead guilty). If you are found guilty following a trial you will be liable for a hefty contribution towards prosecution costs (possibly in excess of £500).

One thing to bear in mind is that if you are conducting the defence yourself you may not be allowed to cross-examine your son yourself. Although he has given recorded evidence he can be asked questions about it in court (almost certainly via video link). If the court decides you cannot do this in person an advocate will be appointed (at no cost to you) to undertake this cross-examination.

[Mas2669]

New Judge - Many thanks for the clarity,really appreciated. Very difficult circumstances considering my son has been put in this situation.

Would the court take a view to charge or impose a penalty to my estranged partner for falsification and deformation of character?..I don't believe she should be allowed to make serious allegations and get away with no consequences.

Thank you
Mas2668

[New Judge]

First of all an apology. The bit in brackets in the first para of my answer should read “(although the Magistrates may view the fact that your young son was present as an aggravating factor in their eyes).” Bit of a cock up on the editing front I’m afraid.

Now, view this from the point of view of the police and the CPS. They have evidence from your son (and presumably from your ex) about this event. They also have conflicting evidence from you. They have no evidence (other than your say so) that your son has been “got at” by your ex. If they think there is a realistic chance of a conviction they must charge you, and if you plead not guilty the only way to resolve the matter is by means of a trial before Magistrates.

If you are acquitted the Magistrates will not concern themselves with allegations of defamation (that is a civil matter). The CPS may consider charges of perjury against your ex (though not against your son as, being under 10, he is under the age of criminal responsibility). Though it has to be said that such prosecutions are rare.

[Mas2669]

Employment law - help please

[Mas2669]

Sorry, new to this forum as still finding my way around..

Yes it is a new question, it's all to do with these circumstances..I now have my employer taking me down the disciplinary route as they believe i will bring company in disrepute.

I have an unblemished record and have been there too many years..The unions won't take it up and am trying to seek advice from ACAS.
My question is: can my employer actually do this?..

Anybody with any similar experiences and / or way forward would be appreciated..

Thanks

[SnowQueen1973]

I can't say for sure, but if your ex has custody of your son they probably will take into account that he may not be a reliable witness against you in this regard (him being a minor anyway), though I can understand it must be painful for you regardless. It is a very sad thing when parents use their children against each other as weapons, and in itself can be classed as a form of abuse. If you are adament the allegations are false you could maybe bring this up in court. Bear in mind I am talking to you on the assumption you are an innocent man and she is the one in the wrong though, if she was or is telling the truth my opinion would differ and I would of course say that a father threatening the mother of his child like that in his presence is abusive.

It seems like one of those cases where, if there are no other witnesses, it may be a case of simply your word against hers, so if you are lucky the case may be dropped due to lack of evidence,

[SnowQueen1973]

If you are found not guilty, of course your ex may be charged with perjury/perverting the course of justice, but this is not automatic. New Judge may be right that such prosecutions are rare, and as he said defamation is a civil matter which you will have to take up yourself if you want it pursued. The fact your son was involved will probably work in your favour though, if you are found not guilty and do want to pursue it on the civil route.

[Mas2669]

Thanks, I am taking this all the way to trial regardless of cost...No one should be entiitled to fabricate this level of severity and impose so much hurt on both myself and my children.

[Mas2669]

Further to the history above. I attended magistrates court this Tuesday and presented my plea of not guilty and a trial date has been set for early May.

Previously my son (aged 9) was ABE interviewed and I was under the impression he was the prosecution witness.

Upon receiving CPS evidence this week in turns out my son has supported his father (unfortuneatley the mother had subjected him to this).

I am led to believe that my ex partner is now the prosecution witness and is requested to attend court. I am also under the impression its her word against mine (according to my solicitor).

However, I am now also alleged to have conducted historical domestic abuse going back to 2005.

Would appreciate some advise on this, despite being arrested under section 4a public order I feel that i am to defend my self against other allegations (black eyes and brusing)..

New Judge - can you please advise on this, i'm confused that I am now taking the stand on these allegations in addition to the charge..

Is this allowed and if so how can this be accepted over and above the original charge?

thanks