Jobs & Education5 mins ago
traffic cops episode ...
I have just watched an episode of this, and in it a young lad was caught faking an RTA.
he had been found lying in the road claiming to have been hit by a red VW with GT as the first bit of the number plate
ambulance, police etc took him to hospital, put him in a neck brace and leg brace etc
then the police viewed CCTV of the scene - and watched him just walk out into the road and lie down!
his dad lived a few doors away and police showed him the footage too.. and even wehn confronted he continued to deny it and claim it happened and even when he appeared to back down he kept saying well his leg and neck is 'sore'.
i suspect he was trying to either just get a bit of sympathy, compensation, or set someone up to be blamed...they did not ask hiim to explain.
he was given a fixed penaly notice of £80 ... but what do you think?
i think he should have received more than that, he wasted so much police and hospital time and resources.
do you think that is enough? what else could they do in these circumstances?
i hope the story appeared in their local paper, shaming him.
he had been found lying in the road claiming to have been hit by a red VW with GT as the first bit of the number plate
ambulance, police etc took him to hospital, put him in a neck brace and leg brace etc
then the police viewed CCTV of the scene - and watched him just walk out into the road and lie down!
his dad lived a few doors away and police showed him the footage too.. and even wehn confronted he continued to deny it and claim it happened and even when he appeared to back down he kept saying well his leg and neck is 'sore'.
i suspect he was trying to either just get a bit of sympathy, compensation, or set someone up to be blamed...they did not ask hiim to explain.
he was given a fixed penaly notice of £80 ... but what do you think?
i think he should have received more than that, he wasted so much police and hospital time and resources.
do you think that is enough? what else could they do in these circumstances?
i hope the story appeared in their local paper, shaming him.
Answers
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It's quite an old one - seen it a couple of times. I'd say the lad's got mental problems and I suppose they could have hauled him before the magistrates and fined him, but it'd take time and time costs money.
I wonder how he's made out since then - his card will be well and truly marked with the local police.
I wonder how he's made out since then - his card will be well and truly marked with the local police.
Why do you think that the police should dispense even more “instant justice” than the already do, joko?
One of the big problems at the moment is that the police are dealing with crime by out of court disposals (cautions, Penalty notices for disorder, Fixed Penalties) at far too higher rate. Some statistics which may surprise you:
- In the year to September 2011 more than a quarter of all recorded offences were dealt with by out of court disposals. These included 43,000 for Theft and handling Stolen Goods, 41,000 for drug offences, 18,000 for offences of violence, 6,000 for possession of a bladed article (max sentence 4 years), 3,300 for Burglary (14 years) and 200 for robbery (Life).
- 5% of people dealt with by way of caution for violent crime have more than ten previous cautions.
- More than 15% of those dealt with by way of caution have at least three cautions to their name.
- More than 60% of people dealt with by way of a caution already have at least one caution against them.
- The fixed penalty for shoplifting (theft) is just £80 – far less than most parking fines.
Police prevent and direct crime. The CPS decides charges and brings people to court. The courts impose appropriate sentences taking into account all the relevant factors. That’s the way it should be. Although the use of out of court disposals is slowly reducing, there is far too much use of them. The way to ensure that people such as the one mentioned in your questioned are dealt with appropriately is to bring them to court – not to provide the police with a greater arsenal of out of court options.
One of the big problems at the moment is that the police are dealing with crime by out of court disposals (cautions, Penalty notices for disorder, Fixed Penalties) at far too higher rate. Some statistics which may surprise you:
- In the year to September 2011 more than a quarter of all recorded offences were dealt with by out of court disposals. These included 43,000 for Theft and handling Stolen Goods, 41,000 for drug offences, 18,000 for offences of violence, 6,000 for possession of a bladed article (max sentence 4 years), 3,300 for Burglary (14 years) and 200 for robbery (Life).
- 5% of people dealt with by way of caution for violent crime have more than ten previous cautions.
- More than 15% of those dealt with by way of caution have at least three cautions to their name.
- More than 60% of people dealt with by way of a caution already have at least one caution against them.
- The fixed penalty for shoplifting (theft) is just £80 – far less than most parking fines.
Police prevent and direct crime. The CPS decides charges and brings people to court. The courts impose appropriate sentences taking into account all the relevant factors. That’s the way it should be. Although the use of out of court disposals is slowly reducing, there is far too much use of them. The way to ensure that people such as the one mentioned in your questioned are dealt with appropriately is to bring them to court – not to provide the police with a greater arsenal of out of court options.
If Mosaic is right about him having mental health problems then I think the person does need help rather than a fine.
I did meet an elderly man in the park who said he had lost his wife.
After speaking to him for about 20 minutes he suddenly said he had just stepped off a ferry in the middle of Birmingham.
At that point I knew something was not right and phoned for an ambulance.
That could have been a police officers time being wasted as he appeared OK when I started talking to him.
Another incident I saw was a nurse being hit.
I thought that was terrible until I found out by accident the man had mental health problems. Obviously I was not told this as the time by the hospital staff as medical information is confidential.
Hanna
I did meet an elderly man in the park who said he had lost his wife.
After speaking to him for about 20 minutes he suddenly said he had just stepped off a ferry in the middle of Birmingham.
At that point I knew something was not right and phoned for an ambulance.
That could have been a police officers time being wasted as he appeared OK when I started talking to him.
Another incident I saw was a nurse being hit.
I thought that was terrible until I found out by accident the man had mental health problems. Obviously I was not told this as the time by the hospital staff as medical information is confidential.
Hanna
New judge - my point was kind of that the penalty chargeor coaution is not strong enough a punishment - from your statistics, they are effectively letting people off practically scot free when they really should receive more punishment.
most people wouldnt see a caution as much of a punishement - because its just a word on paper, the FPN is just £60 or 80...buttons to some people.
if they could dish out instant punishements that actually affetcted people - impeded on their lives - such as community service - or even the report to the station once a week thing - it irritates and affects people more, it isnt forgotten about a few hours later.
hanna - i dont think he did have mental health issues - or than a lack of knowing when to stop...
his father who as there throughout would have surely told the officers and hospitla staff if he was unwell.
he was a perfectly normal attention seeker - even the officer was fuming and shouted at him.
he looked a wee bit under the influence, but not totally out of it...he walked fine unaided, talked ok...just a small amount of minor slurring ... i got the impression from his mannerisms etc that he was a bit of the drama queen...and that he got an idea in his head and that it seems like a good idea at the time.
as i said because of this i supsect his actions were an attempt to set someone up - a rival or something - id have been interested to know if the car he claimed hit him matched an ex boyfriend or love rival (i think the lad might have been gay - he seemed quite effeminate)
most people wouldnt see a caution as much of a punishement - because its just a word on paper, the FPN is just £60 or 80...buttons to some people.
if they could dish out instant punishements that actually affetcted people - impeded on their lives - such as community service - or even the report to the station once a week thing - it irritates and affects people more, it isnt forgotten about a few hours later.
hanna - i dont think he did have mental health issues - or than a lack of knowing when to stop...
his father who as there throughout would have surely told the officers and hospitla staff if he was unwell.
he was a perfectly normal attention seeker - even the officer was fuming and shouted at him.
he looked a wee bit under the influence, but not totally out of it...he walked fine unaided, talked ok...just a small amount of minor slurring ... i got the impression from his mannerisms etc that he was a bit of the drama queen...and that he got an idea in his head and that it seems like a good idea at the time.
as i said because of this i supsect his actions were an attempt to set someone up - a rival or something - id have been interested to know if the car he claimed hit him matched an ex boyfriend or love rival (i think the lad might have been gay - he seemed quite effeminate)
The police are not the best people to determine sentences, joko. Sentencing is a complex business and is one of the most taxing exercises for judges and magistrates. The fixed penalties for different offences are precisely that - fixed. A "sheep dip" approach to sentencing is poor justice and takes no account of aggravation or mitigation relating to either the offence or the offender. And that's why the widespread use of (fixed) out of court disposals for what are quite serious offences leads to the kind of situation you describe.
By their nature these disposals are not going to have a profound effect on offenders when often they should. That's why such offenders should be brought before the court. All such disposals do is save police the bother of seeing through a proper prosecution.
By their nature these disposals are not going to have a profound effect on offenders when often they should. That's why such offenders should be brought before the court. All such disposals do is save police the bother of seeing through a proper prosecution.
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