Rights of the self employed

[divegirl]

Hi. I registered as self employed earlier this year (worse move ever, but that's a different story). Since I started my job my employer has, in the last few days implemented a new 'points and fines' system. No new contract has been issued so can he just do this?

Lisa x

[ummmm]

I would think so. Being self employed you are free to work elsewhere.

[murraymints]

do you have a contract if you are self eployed ? neither are you his employee any longer..you may be a self employed person with a conract to do a job but not an employment contract by definition you are self employed..

[rojash]

You are your employer.

[divegirl]

I wished lol.

So would they not have to issue a new/revised contract then.

[factor-fiction]

I'm not sure how he is your employer if you are self-employed.
A contract's terms can be changed without the need to reissue the whole document. How have you been informed?

[EDDIE51]

As you are self employed , you do not have an 'Employer'
The people you work for can specify any conditions they like.

[divegirl]

I am self employed by dint of being responsible for paying my own tax and NI. I only work for the one company though and had to sign a contract .
I know I am in essence my own boss but this guy keeps changing the rules.

I only wish it were as easy as just walking away and finding a new job

Lisa x

[divegirl]

By email factor.....

Oh well just thought I'd ask, looks like I'm well and truly stuffed :0(

[ummmm]

Why are you self employed?

I thought you had to work for more than one employer to qualify nowadays?

[EDDIE51]

If you only work for 1 person and sign a contact you are not self empolyed under the rules of the DWP. Your employer should be paying your tax and NI including the employers NI contribution. Your employer is getting out of his obligations by getting you to say you are self employed. I would ask advice (job centre?) about getting back as an employee. You are in danger of getting into trouble with the tax and NI people if you carry on as you are.

[rojash]

"I am self employed by dint of being responsible for paying my own tax and NI. I only work for the one company though and had to sign a contract "

You should expect a visit from the tax office in that case, who will require you to explain exactly how you think that that constitutes self-employment.

[Tom Braider]

The definition of "self-employed" is more complicated than has been suggested - see HMRC leaflet ES/FS2 for more details - but you certainly don't become self-employed just "by dint of being responsible for paying my own tax and NI". And although I don't know what you mean by a points and fines system, it doesn't sound like something that could be forced onto a genuinely independent worker. Sounds to me like you may not be self-employed at all. As for the contract, a contract is an agreement. It can be "varied" by mutual agreement but one party can't just impose extra conditions on the other when they feel like it. Beware, though. If you continue to work for this person without objecting to the new rules you'll probably be found to have agreed to them by your silence. If I were you I'd phone the HMRC self-employed helpline - you can find it on www.hmrc.gov.uk - and tell 'em you're unsure of your employment status. Ask to speak to a status specialist. There's also an on-line tool called the Employment Status Indicator (google it) which may be helpful.

[divegirl]

...now I'm scared!

I have registered with the HMRC in May and explained the work I would be doing. They said fine and sent me a 'soul trader' number [which I have lost already].
I just tried the Employment Status Indicator but it is not giving results! Looks like its crashed.
I'll try it again later on see what it says. I don't want to ring the HMRC before I have a bit more information....I need this [or any] job :0(
Thank you all for your help.

Lisa x

[divegirl]

Just got this result from the Employment Status Indicator.............

Employment Status Indicator Result

Based on the information you have provided, the worker is self-employed.

The result is based on the following grounds:

Version: 1.3.0.2

The worker is self-employed. [Why ?]

There is a low indication of substitution. [Why ?]

There is a high indication of financial risk. [Why ?]

So there you go!

None the wiser on where I stand in regards of my boss putting into play his new 'points and fines' system.
My work means I have to search people on line and am paid an amount for each 'search and answer' I complete [£0.25p] with the new system in place if I miss a 'search and answer' I am fined 25 points [when it reaches 100 points it is an immediate £100 fine] and a £20 fine. Reach 100 twice and your contract will be terminated.
Stuffed aren't I!

Lisa x

[Zacs-Master]

Sounds like you need a new employer to me. Try ACAS, as I think the person you are contracted to is bending a few rules. They're very helpful.

[divegirl]

I know :0(

Trouble is, I work from home on my PC and it is the perfect job as I can't be on my feet for any amount of time [arthritis].

If Tom Braider is around, any idea where I can get more information on the the bit where you say
''As for the contract, a contract is an agreement. It can be "varied" by mutual agreement but one party can't just impose extra conditions on the other when they feel like it.''
That may be my only hope.

Lisa x

[tonywiltshire]

Tom and others are correct your status is probably not self-employed, if you only work for one company it is extremely unlikely that HMRC will accept you are self-employed, if you are not an employee you are not eligible for statutory employment rights and it is very important that you establish your employment status. First ask yourself:
Do you have mutuality of obligation, does the company for whom you work have to provide you with work and do you have to accept that work.
Is there a sufficiency of control exercised by the employer over the worker.
I suggest if there are others in the same position you band together and seek professional advice as to your employment status. You may be interested in O’Kelly v THF Plc. 1983 which went to the court of appeal and established Mr O’ Kelly was not an employee as there was no mutuality of obligation.

[divegirl]

As far as I am aware I am one of the only ones that choose to pay tax, hence the registering with HMRC.
I am sent a rota template to fill in every fortnight with which hours I am available to work and a completed rota is sent back a couple of days later. If I do not log on for my shift with out good caused I will be fined. I have to give a months notice for any holiday I wish to take and am monitored constantly through out my shift.
The result on the Employment Status Indicator, I feel came back as that as I was asked, can someone else do my job in place of me....well no. And do I provide my own equipment, yes I do, it's my pc and I pay for the broadband.

Is it worth my while seeking advice from the CAB initially?

Lisa x

[tonyav]

I would if I were you Lisa ( CAB ), It can't do any harm can it.

[chelle7272]

re - 'mutually agreed' changes to contract - info here
http://www.direct.gov...onditions/DG_10028079

not sure if the same applies if you are classed as self employed though.

i'd say yes, see CAb int he first instance.