Employment Law On Redundancy

[bednobs]

hi, i work for a PCT, which is closing when GP's take over NHS commissioning next April. The new structure of the NHS means that a more centralised approach is being taken and that there will be jobs available in the new "central commissioning unit" that are more than/equivalent to 51% of my current JD. The new structure has just been published, and there are no jobs available of my pay grade in the county i currently work in. I was under the impression that i can't get made redundant (my preferred option) unless i am seen to be trying to get a job in the new structure, Does anyone know if i can be forced to apply for jobs that are a lower band than i am currently at or in a different county than i currently work in?

[buildersmate]

If the job ceases to exist, the job is redundant. It is the duty of the employer to work with the employees without roles following a redundancy situation to seek to redeploy within but the job has to be broadly similar, or the employee has to be voluntarily willing to accept an alternative role on lesser terms (salary or whatever). Offering a compulsion but with reduced salary doesn't sound like broadly similar.

That's the legal version, but in a highly manipulated like the NHS, deals may have been done with unions that have agreed different protocols (that give the employers even less room for manouvre - like putting folks in a redeployment pool for months on end, for example, waiting for that elusive equivalent job to turn up).

Since you work in the NHS, you'd presumably know about these sort of arrnagements.

[factor-fiction]

Are the NHs also offering some form of 'partial' redundancy option, under which you will receive a scaled down compensation payment based on your service and the difference between your current salary and your new salary if you accept a lower level job?
If they do offer a lower level job i think it has to be something that suits you and they may offer a trial period.

[boxtops]

Hi bednobs, join the club, I am in exactly the same position as you. We received our notices of "at risk of redundancy" last week. What HR have told us is that they will make every effort to job-match us (with the 51% as you say) with new or unfilled roles in any of our 12 receiver organisations - not only with our Commissioning Support unit - and that if we can be matched, things like grade and travel distances to a new job are taken into consideration.

In the meantime, while we are waiting to see whether our service is going to continue or not (and a lot of it is down to money as the CCGs only have £25 per patient for their management etc costs) most of us are looking for new jobs - most of them seem to be in Leeds :-( There is indeed an expectation that we will be proactive and look for other work, but if we find work within the NHS we will lose our right to redundancy from the current roles (even though those current roles may no longer be there).

We did raise the travel issue since some of my team don't drive and a long journey to a new location would be difficult for some, and we are told that this sort of thing is taken into consideration.

Happy to share more as it comes my way!

[boxtops]

No factor, it doesn't work like that.

[bednobs]

lol i don't think there are months and months - apparently we will know before christmas what our "final destination" will be in the new NHS world. I have been given 1 week to apply for jobs, with the interviews being the day after the forms are due in! (no jiggery=pokery there then lol) I am seriously considering getting an "eff off" tattoo across my face, so i don't get one of the new jobs in another county, and they are forced to make me redundant!

[boxtops]

Yep bednobs, some jobs came up last friday and we have to apply by this weds, with the expectation of interview and appointment before Christmas. It's all moving very fast now, things are changing by the day.

[bednobs]

sounds like i might know sooner than you then boxy! They are trying to avoid redundancy costs (understandably, as most people have been in the nhs for a long time, and will at least be in the tens of thousands range) Most of my team have either left, or already have job interviews lined up, but because i've been on mat leave, ive be rather out of it (thank god - morale is at an all time low)

[boxtops]

PS bednobs, did they not issue you with a sheaf of papers with your redundancy risk notice, which explains how your employer is fulfilling their requirements about redundancies? ours is about 8 pages long....

[boxtops]

Ho yes - I know exactly what you mean. Before we were at risk, we were designated as "stranded", then "displaced" - nothing like positive terminology, is it?!

[buildersmate]

If you want redundancy, just stick it out (so to speak) and sweetly go to those 'sub-alternative' roles you are asked to consider (use it for interview practice). Meanwhile you should get offered time off to go to 'other' interviews outside the NHS.
Appreciate it's rather stressful, but if you know what your goal is (money), in this economic climate you will probably get your wish in the end.

[bednobs]

also, although the jobs i'm expected to apply for meet the "51%" criteria, it's only just, and the other 49% is pr/press related stuff which is really really not my milieu

[boxtops]

we're not allowed time off for interviews until after 31 December, when we get our official 90-days notification of pending redundancy. At the moment, we're just at risk.

[boxtops]

Bednobs, yes - I fear being matched with the 51% of my job which isn't so interesting.

[bednobs]

you are right BM, my ultimate aim is to get money and buy myself some more time to be a mum. Probably not a popular point of view, but ho hum!

[factor-fiction]

I agree with buildersmate. I went through the same process and found I was quite good at playing the game. Other departments are unlikely to want someone who clearly isn't enthusiastic about the roles on offer. The organisation may not want to have people hanging around who are not keen to stay

[bednobs]

time off for interviews isn't even on my radar. I am quite interested to know what would have happened if i'd been on a 3 week holiday abroad from friday!

[boxtops]

I was just getting used to the idea that I might have some dosh, and time to regroup and decide what I wanted to do next, then before we knew it, it was all change, jobs being made available, etc. It's very hard to keep up, and it's all very wearying.

[boxtops]

Exactly bednobs - I've got some leave next week, I'm going to have to look at the jobsite every day to see if they've given me an interview, or if other jobs have come up.

[bednobs]

boxy. were you told what jobs you were obliged to apply for? Were you pooled?

[boxtops]

No, my manager has made sure I've seen certain job vacancies (as I have done for my team) but tbh the team have usually spotted the adverts (and told me about them) before they are notified from above. We've not been told that we can only apply for posts in certain roles. No pooling.