ChatterBank3 mins ago
Accused Of Handling Stolen Goods.
Hello all,
I do some trading(mainly mobiles phones) on an online auction website apart from my employment.
My house was recently searched by Police who seized some phones that I had at home for sale and arrested me on suspicion of handling of stolen goods.
They took me down to local police station, upon arrival of my solicitor(duty solicitor), I was interviewed by Police and later released on bail for couple of months without charge.
I have purchased phones on online auction website and have never purchased anything that I had knowledge or suspected it to be stolen.
I have never had any trouble with police before that either.
Can anyone shed some light please that what could be likely outcome when I go down to Police station to answer the bail in few weeks time?
I do some trading(mainly mobiles phones) on an online auction website apart from my employment.
My house was recently searched by Police who seized some phones that I had at home for sale and arrested me on suspicion of handling of stolen goods.
They took me down to local police station, upon arrival of my solicitor(duty solicitor), I was interviewed by Police and later released on bail for couple of months without charge.
I have purchased phones on online auction website and have never purchased anything that I had knowledge or suspected it to be stolen.
I have never had any trouble with police before that either.
Can anyone shed some light please that what could be likely outcome when I go down to Police station to answer the bail in few weeks time?
Answers
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Surely if none of the phones have been reported as stolen – then when you answer bail, the police will advise you that there is no case to answer (with no charge).
My local police force cannot be bothered to turn up when I report a crime, you should consider yourself lucky that your local police force has time on their hands to go looking for crimes to investigate.
My local police force cannot be bothered to turn up when I report a crime, you should consider yourself lucky that your local police force has time on their hands to go looking for crimes to investigate.
Thank you all for your input.
Just to clarify, Police did mention during the interview that a small number of phones did get reported stolen that I have dealt in though they did mention if they got reported stolen before I purchased or after I sold them.
All I can say is, my purchases were on online auction website which has got records of payment made/received by myself upon purchases & sales of items and I have had no reason to suspect that any of those phones were or could have been stolen and more importantly(at least from my point of view), my purchases have been from individual sellers and not from one source that I could have/should have some suspicion about legal owners of those items?
Just to clarify, Police did mention during the interview that a small number of phones did get reported stolen that I have dealt in though they did mention if they got reported stolen before I purchased or after I sold them.
All I can say is, my purchases were on online auction website which has got records of payment made/received by myself upon purchases & sales of items and I have had no reason to suspect that any of those phones were or could have been stolen and more importantly(at least from my point of view), my purchases have been from individual sellers and not from one source that I could have/should have some suspicion about legal owners of those items?
It is most likely to be under the Theft Act, which needs prove of dishonesty. The wording in this offence basically states 'the accused must know or believe that the goods are stolen at the time of the alleged handling. This is fairly difficult to prove, particularly in the situation as you have described, i.e., individual online purchases where prices could be much lower than the expected market value due to the nature of bidding.
If the police can not prove you had actual knowledge (knew) that the property was stolen then they have to look at your 'belief', and one way to consider this is the market value of the property the accused paid for it.
Here is a bit of stated Case Law-
·A person knows that goods are stolen if he has actual knowledge of this, or if he is told of this by someone with first-hand knowledge (eg, by the thief himself). 'Belief' was something short of knowledge, and applied to the situation where the person could not say for certain that the goods were stolen, but there was no other reasonable conclusion in the light of all the circumstances.
Did the police disclose any evidence in interview, or to your solicitor to suggest you must have known or believed the property to be stolen or was it obvious you had been arrested solely because of of an investigation into stolen phones later showed you were in possession at a later date?.
Obviously, I can not say what will happen when you return on bail but highlighting the difficulties the prosecution side face when investigating this offence.
The fact that you have no pre-cons for any theft offences is relevant in this case.
If the police can not prove you had actual knowledge (knew) that the property was stolen then they have to look at your 'belief', and one way to consider this is the market value of the property the accused paid for it.
Here is a bit of stated Case Law-
·A person knows that goods are stolen if he has actual knowledge of this, or if he is told of this by someone with first-hand knowledge (eg, by the thief himself). 'Belief' was something short of knowledge, and applied to the situation where the person could not say for certain that the goods were stolen, but there was no other reasonable conclusion in the light of all the circumstances.
Did the police disclose any evidence in interview, or to your solicitor to suggest you must have known or believed the property to be stolen or was it obvious you had been arrested solely because of of an investigation into stolen phones later showed you were in possession at a later date?.
Obviously, I can not say what will happen when you return on bail but highlighting the difficulties the prosecution side face when investigating this offence.
The fact that you have no pre-cons for any theft offences is relevant in this case.
Thanks you very much Orderlimit for your detailed answer.
Only thing that Police showed us (myself and solicitor) during interview were the phones that were seized from my property during search though non of them were reported as stolen as long as I am aware of and neither did Police mentioned that those or any of them were stolen.
Police had a list of phones that I have dealt during a year or and mentioned that a small percentage of those were reported as stolen.
I personally have no idea if any of them were reported as stolen/which ones were reported as stolen.
Police since then has not disclosed any evidence to my solicitor and as advised by Solicitor, Police will only disclose the evidence if they decide to formally charge me with offense to prepare the defense and not during continuation of investigation.
Upon releasing on bail, all I was told about bail return date with comments that I am being released on bail for two months while they investigate that actually what I have been up to.
Only thing that Police showed us (myself and solicitor) during interview were the phones that were seized from my property during search though non of them were reported as stolen as long as I am aware of and neither did Police mentioned that those or any of them were stolen.
Police had a list of phones that I have dealt during a year or and mentioned that a small percentage of those were reported as stolen.
I personally have no idea if any of them were reported as stolen/which ones were reported as stolen.
Police since then has not disclosed any evidence to my solicitor and as advised by Solicitor, Police will only disclose the evidence if they decide to formally charge me with offense to prepare the defense and not during continuation of investigation.
Upon releasing on bail, all I was told about bail return date with comments that I am being released on bail for two months while they investigate that actually what I have been up to.
Your solicitor means disclosure of the prosecution evidence after a charge and prior to trial, etc
The majority of evidence is disclosed before and during interviews (not always) and is usually obvious if there isn't much or any 'admissible' evidence. However, any information disclosed by the accused during interview can form avenues of further inquiries for the investigating officers.
Did you use any method to check if the phones were nicked, as this would obviously promote your case? if not, it certainly would be worth considering in the future.
I would be preparing as much information as i could from records to hand to your solicitor prior to answering bail. It maybe that the police are satisfied with your explanations and cancel your bail prior to the date.
The majority of evidence is disclosed before and during interviews (not always) and is usually obvious if there isn't much or any 'admissible' evidence. However, any information disclosed by the accused during interview can form avenues of further inquiries for the investigating officers.
Did you use any method to check if the phones were nicked, as this would obviously promote your case? if not, it certainly would be worth considering in the future.
I would be preparing as much information as i could from records to hand to your solicitor prior to answering bail. It maybe that the police are satisfied with your explanations and cancel your bail prior to the date.
i don't think saying you had no reason to suspect is going to go down well - of course you had reason to suspect!
or at least you should have.
you were buying valuable items, from strangers, items that happen to be a target for thieves and are often stolen and sold online!
there is every reason to suspect they were possibly stolen - especially if they were sold with no, receipts, boxes, chargers, instructions etc etc.
if you really had not even considered this, then perhaps online selling is not the business for you as you are liable to get yourself into trouble...
or at least you should have.
you were buying valuable items, from strangers, items that happen to be a target for thieves and are often stolen and sold online!
there is every reason to suspect they were possibly stolen - especially if they were sold with no, receipts, boxes, chargers, instructions etc etc.
if you really had not even considered this, then perhaps online selling is not the business for you as you are liable to get yourself into trouble...
Unfortunately, No. I did check randomly some of them on checkmend but not all of them as I had no reason to suspect that they could have been stolen (I have always read the description of item provided by sellers about their item in auction website very closely to make sure that they were stolen) and didn't want to pay extra £1.99 for report though now I believe that it could have been money well spent.
I am desperately hoping/praying that they would cancel the bail and drop the case before my bail date.
One point that I personally am not able to clear is that if it was part of some sort of wider investigation that ended up searching my property of if they indeed just searched my property solely for the purpose to get evidence/recover phones that they believed could have been stolen?
The search warrant was not by name but for the property if that makes any difference?
I am desperately hoping/praying that they would cancel the bail and drop the case before my bail date.
One point that I personally am not able to clear is that if it was part of some sort of wider investigation that ended up searching my property of if they indeed just searched my property solely for the purpose to get evidence/recover phones that they believed could have been stolen?
The search warrant was not by name but for the property if that makes any difference?
Just to confirm, produce records of the exact time and dates you actually purchased individual items as the police will be able to check when the property was reported stolen (for the obvious reasons).
The fact that you were using Checkmend should assist your case (it is a shame that ACPO don't fund such services to reduce crime, although they are too busy making millions for their own bank accounts).
The fact that you were using Checkmend should assist your case (it is a shame that ACPO don't fund such services to reduce crime, although they are too busy making millions for their own bank accounts).
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