The K M Links Game - November 2024 Week...
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Asbestos ...
what danger would there be if someone swept up in a room where there was asbestos without a mask?
only for about an hour.
thanks
only for about an hour.
thanks
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if it's really true that a pile of "loose" asbestos was just left for someone to go in with a broom and sweep up (which seems to be what you are saying) thaen there has been a massive failure somewhere. The risks of asbestos have been known about for many years now. However, even if there has been such an exposure, there is nothing the person can do now, and nothing that can show up for many many years
Not a sensible thing to do but one can not undo the past. Chances are there is no issue. It's not like the individual has been working with it for years, unprotected. But they ought to have worn the regulation masks and damped the area down. Best not to stress oneself out. As mentioned probably no ill affects anyway.
well what happened is, we are working in a closed down school - not sure why its closed - but it could possibly due to extensive asbestos work that was needed - as the report states there was a lot in the building an most of it has been removed or made safe, and so we have been granted permission to use it
however, the basement was opened up and they began brushing up and moving all the junk ... then as they went further down to the back of the room there is a weird shaped bit, round a bit of a corner and higher up where they had been putting some of the stuff and moving stuff near it, which had red and white tape on it... it had a sign taped to it saying 'caution asbestos' - the sign was hung in such a way that the words were facing the floor so the only way to read it was to pick it up and turn it upwards, the red tape was also across the bend in the room so they'd been working there without noticing it for just over an hour, possibly 2
they came out and told me and i informed the construction manager and location manager etc and they just brushed it off saying it was all fine and we were being a bit silly and not problem and it had all been deemed safe - the sign much have been just left over - and told them to carry on - so they went back down for a bit longer, and then i decided after speaking to the construction manager and i realised he didn't really know what he was talking about and was just guessing that it was ok, i decided to pull them out and wait until we are 100% sure its safe.
yesterday we found it was not and we are not to use it anymore
NB: the red tape was across a pile of rubble and dust - i don't know whether this was just bricks and dust or contaminated, or whether the asbestos was elsewhere - it was just rubble.
the asbestos report said everywhere else in the place as a green 'low risk' - except for the basement which had red 'high risk' beside it - when i pointed this out the location manager changed his tune and suddenly looked concerned.
the locations manager allowed them down there without checking this - though i assume he figured being granted permission to use the whole building and not specifically warned not to go down there, that there was no danger anywhere.
he should have checked but i understand why he didn't.
the problem is, one of the workers was my boyfriend and he is now fuming and wanting to sue them and get some money - he is so angry that he wants something done - especially since they had a bit of a *** attitude towards him about the fact that he pointed it out - they seemed to want him to just carry on regardless - he is also terrified now that he will die a painful death etc
but can he sue? is there a case here? he has called 3 solicitors with an outline an they seemed interested in the case, though they haven't discussed it thoroughly yet.
problem for me is - its my job - i don't want him starting up a case with them, if he has no case, and making my life difficult there for no reason.
the job ends in a few months and i have said he can do whatever he wants then, but i don't want this to affect me at work really
so i want to know if he is likely to win a case really?
could the loc guy say he had reasonable cause to think it was safe?
is he the one at fault for not checking first?
or is someone at the council at fault for not informing him?
i assume the purpose of the reports is so he can check - and therefore they have informed him 'indirectly' - he just didn't look...
i am pretty sure he didn't know it was there - he looked worried when i pointed out the forms
thanks for any help
(there is no point is telling me to calm my boyfriend down, and that hes money grabbing etc - he is hotheaded and wont listen - i just want the facts and the law please.
however, the basement was opened up and they began brushing up and moving all the junk ... then as they went further down to the back of the room there is a weird shaped bit, round a bit of a corner and higher up where they had been putting some of the stuff and moving stuff near it, which had red and white tape on it... it had a sign taped to it saying 'caution asbestos' - the sign was hung in such a way that the words were facing the floor so the only way to read it was to pick it up and turn it upwards, the red tape was also across the bend in the room so they'd been working there without noticing it for just over an hour, possibly 2
they came out and told me and i informed the construction manager and location manager etc and they just brushed it off saying it was all fine and we were being a bit silly and not problem and it had all been deemed safe - the sign much have been just left over - and told them to carry on - so they went back down for a bit longer, and then i decided after speaking to the construction manager and i realised he didn't really know what he was talking about and was just guessing that it was ok, i decided to pull them out and wait until we are 100% sure its safe.
yesterday we found it was not and we are not to use it anymore
NB: the red tape was across a pile of rubble and dust - i don't know whether this was just bricks and dust or contaminated, or whether the asbestos was elsewhere - it was just rubble.
the asbestos report said everywhere else in the place as a green 'low risk' - except for the basement which had red 'high risk' beside it - when i pointed this out the location manager changed his tune and suddenly looked concerned.
the locations manager allowed them down there without checking this - though i assume he figured being granted permission to use the whole building and not specifically warned not to go down there, that there was no danger anywhere.
he should have checked but i understand why he didn't.
the problem is, one of the workers was my boyfriend and he is now fuming and wanting to sue them and get some money - he is so angry that he wants something done - especially since they had a bit of a *** attitude towards him about the fact that he pointed it out - they seemed to want him to just carry on regardless - he is also terrified now that he will die a painful death etc
but can he sue? is there a case here? he has called 3 solicitors with an outline an they seemed interested in the case, though they haven't discussed it thoroughly yet.
problem for me is - its my job - i don't want him starting up a case with them, if he has no case, and making my life difficult there for no reason.
the job ends in a few months and i have said he can do whatever he wants then, but i don't want this to affect me at work really
so i want to know if he is likely to win a case really?
could the loc guy say he had reasonable cause to think it was safe?
is he the one at fault for not checking first?
or is someone at the council at fault for not informing him?
i assume the purpose of the reports is so he can check - and therefore they have informed him 'indirectly' - he just didn't look...
i am pretty sure he didn't know it was there - he looked worried when i pointed out the forms
thanks for any help
(there is no point is telling me to calm my boyfriend down, and that hes money grabbing etc - he is hotheaded and wont listen - i just want the facts and the law please.
I'm no legal expert so best wait for one of the regulars to get here, but from a layman's point of view it is the management's responsibility to check things are safe for the workers. I'd have thought there was a potential claim, but I'm unsure if your boyfriend would get a lot unless/until they developed symptoms that could be tied to the incident. But lets's see what the experts say.
i am not a law person, however, it seems to me that your bf wouldn't be successful in suing - what exactly would he sue for? there is nothing to be compensated for (at the moment) - he has not suffered any ill effects, time off work etc
he cant say "I'm suing you because i could potentially get ill in 60 years time" how would anyone work out what that could equate to in monetary terms when he could get run over by a bus next week?
he cant say "I'm suing you because i could potentially get ill in 60 years time" how would anyone work out what that could equate to in monetary terms when he could get run over by a bus next week?
A friend died of asbestos related illness a few years ago. It was about 20 years after exposure. He was working demolishing a school when he was exposed.
I have heard of a case where a man was compensated for the stress when everyone he had worked with had died even though he had not contracted the disease.
I have heard of a case where a man was compensated for the stress when everyone he had worked with had died even though he had not contracted the disease.
The law on asbestos is very strict , DO NOT TOUCH IT AND GET OUT OF THERE NOW!.
The managers need to get a fully qualified asbestos removal team in to remove it.
I was works chemist and quality control officer for an asbestos product company for 18 years , so i do know what I am talking about.
If this is the worst case (blue asbestos) even a very short exposure could be fatal!. The problem is that you show no symptoms for up to 30 years but once they appear death can be within a year. The people who left this bag need to be informed urgently and brought back to sort this.
In the meantime GET OUT !!!
The managers need to get a fully qualified asbestos removal team in to remove it.
I was works chemist and quality control officer for an asbestos product company for 18 years , so i do know what I am talking about.
If this is the worst case (blue asbestos) even a very short exposure could be fatal!. The problem is that you show no symptoms for up to 30 years but once they appear death can be within a year. The people who left this bag need to be informed urgently and brought back to sort this.
In the meantime GET OUT !!!
cheers all
bednobs - he had sweeped all around the area.... the dust could have been full of asbestos from when is originally fell down or when the pile was made.
it was not contained inside a wall or anything
and no im not sure what he could claim for either as at this stage he is fine ... perhaps the solicitors etc will say negligence, endangerment or something i guess...?
they did not provide any equipment - masks etc - though when it was discovered the construction manager went straight out and spent £80 on masks, gloves and biohaz suits...
i know its ALWAYS bad, but can it have such serious consequences after such a short time?
its sounding like it may have been more like 3-4 hours now because after i told them to get out, the construction manager said it was ok and that he'd send his lads down there no problem and i think they just trusted he knew his stuff... ( he even said as a kid he had used to make 'snowballs' out of it!)
the report says its amosite chrysotile
bednobs - he had sweeped all around the area.... the dust could have been full of asbestos from when is originally fell down or when the pile was made.
it was not contained inside a wall or anything
and no im not sure what he could claim for either as at this stage he is fine ... perhaps the solicitors etc will say negligence, endangerment or something i guess...?
they did not provide any equipment - masks etc - though when it was discovered the construction manager went straight out and spent £80 on masks, gloves and biohaz suits...
i know its ALWAYS bad, but can it have such serious consequences after such a short time?
its sounding like it may have been more like 3-4 hours now because after i told them to get out, the construction manager said it was ok and that he'd send his lads down there no problem and i think they just trusted he knew his stuff... ( he even said as a kid he had used to make 'snowballs' out of it!)
the report says its amosite chrysotile
The HSE has some useful advice regarding inadvertent exposure within their frequently asked question section:
http://
Further information about the management of the risk by the duty holder is covered in the main HSE section here:
http://
This would appear to be a breach of health and safety legislation - and the employer not knowing about the risk won't be an acceptable defence as it simply indicates that no risk assessment was undertaken and the information about the risk provided by the building owner was not read (e.g. they had been notified but ignored the plan provided).
There is an argument that this constitutes a 'dangerous occurrence' that requires reporting by the employer under the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations (RIDDOR). If your bf wants to make a claim in the future I would advise him to visit his GP now to have the dates of exposure recorded, ask that his employer (in writing) to report the incident as a RIDDOR reportable dangerous occurrence and contact the site owners to identify the type of asbestos that he has been exposed to.
When it comes to actually making the claim this may prove problematic in that the detriment will not be evident for many years or more likely will never occur.
http://
Further information about the management of the risk by the duty holder is covered in the main HSE section here:
http://
This would appear to be a breach of health and safety legislation - and the employer not knowing about the risk won't be an acceptable defence as it simply indicates that no risk assessment was undertaken and the information about the risk provided by the building owner was not read (e.g. they had been notified but ignored the plan provided).
There is an argument that this constitutes a 'dangerous occurrence' that requires reporting by the employer under the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations (RIDDOR). If your bf wants to make a claim in the future I would advise him to visit his GP now to have the dates of exposure recorded, ask that his employer (in writing) to report the incident as a RIDDOR reportable dangerous occurrence and contact the site owners to identify the type of asbestos that he has been exposed to.
When it comes to actually making the claim this may prove problematic in that the detriment will not be evident for many years or more likely will never occur.
There are several issues here:
1. If it is white asbestos (as eddie says) then it is much less serious than blue or brown, & it doesn't tie up with the report saying the basement was high risk. This discrepancy needs to be resolved.
2. Regardless of the type it was, management has been (to put it kindly) rather remiss in the way they dealt with it. It is particularly concerning that the construction manager went out & bought masks etc. Did he then issue them to staff & get them to go on doing the work? If so, that is - once he knew what the report had said - a severe dereliction of the duty of care to his employees. He clearly doesn't have sufficient knowledge of asbestos regulations & that is itself a matter of great concern.
3. HSE must be involved - there have been failures here which need to be investigated. I can understand your concern for your job, but you shouldn't let that over-ride the importance of making sure that such irresponsible behaviour by the managers is stopped & that they are properly & thoroughly trained in the asbestos regs. Otherwise, they could expose other employees to severe risk in the future. If necessary, you need to go to the firm's chief executive or managing director about this (or the owner if it is a smaller firm).
4. The firm must have insurance to cover any liability they have for this type of incident. It is vital that full reporting takes place & that the insurer is informed as they will probably be responsible for any eventual payout to employees if any of them become ill (which will be many years in the future) as a result. Your boyfriend & the others who have been exposed should all be involved in this process. They should be given documents showing what has occurred, the details of the insurer & confirmation from the insurer that they are to be contacted if any claim has to be made.
5. The firm that was supposed to have cleared the asbestos has also been negligent & need to be involved, as do the Council.
6. I don't know whether your boyfriend has a valid claim at the moment as this is a disease which takes years to come about. Solicitors should be able to advise on this but it seems to me that if he got any compensation now it would be unlikely to reflect the damage he might suffer if he became ill years later, & any settlement now would almost certainly be on the basis that he couldn't claim anything more.
1. If it is white asbestos (as eddie says) then it is much less serious than blue or brown, & it doesn't tie up with the report saying the basement was high risk. This discrepancy needs to be resolved.
2. Regardless of the type it was, management has been (to put it kindly) rather remiss in the way they dealt with it. It is particularly concerning that the construction manager went out & bought masks etc. Did he then issue them to staff & get them to go on doing the work? If so, that is - once he knew what the report had said - a severe dereliction of the duty of care to his employees. He clearly doesn't have sufficient knowledge of asbestos regulations & that is itself a matter of great concern.
3. HSE must be involved - there have been failures here which need to be investigated. I can understand your concern for your job, but you shouldn't let that over-ride the importance of making sure that such irresponsible behaviour by the managers is stopped & that they are properly & thoroughly trained in the asbestos regs. Otherwise, they could expose other employees to severe risk in the future. If necessary, you need to go to the firm's chief executive or managing director about this (or the owner if it is a smaller firm).
4. The firm must have insurance to cover any liability they have for this type of incident. It is vital that full reporting takes place & that the insurer is informed as they will probably be responsible for any eventual payout to employees if any of them become ill (which will be many years in the future) as a result. Your boyfriend & the others who have been exposed should all be involved in this process. They should be given documents showing what has occurred, the details of the insurer & confirmation from the insurer that they are to be contacted if any claim has to be made.
5. The firm that was supposed to have cleared the asbestos has also been negligent & need to be involved, as do the Council.
6. I don't know whether your boyfriend has a valid claim at the moment as this is a disease which takes years to come about. Solicitors should be able to advise on this but it seems to me that if he got any compensation now it would be unlikely to reflect the damage he might suffer if he became ill years later, & any settlement now would almost certainly be on the basis that he couldn't claim anything more.
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