Will I Get Time For Abh

[rickrocks]

Back in April i went for a family meal for my little sisters 15th Birthday with my sister my mother and step dad. We was in a well known table in the middle of town. Near to the end of the meal me and my sister went up to get desert and there was a group of around 4-5 black males trying to talk to her. I said to them do they mind not talking to her because shes only 15 and they looked around 20. I carried on putting food onto my plate and they came over to me and started making threats saying come outside. I tried to ignore it and walked back with my sister and sat down at the table. One of the guys followed me about 15metres to my table where my family was and was telling me to come outside. He started to walk closer to me and i didnt know if he was going to harm myself or anyone at the table so instinctively i picked up a glass which was next to me and hit him with it and we started to fight. The rest of hes friends came over and i got hit with a knuckle duster in the back of my head and my stepdad got hit with one and fractured his cheekbone. I got away from them and went to hospital as i had lacerated tendons in my hand and an artery. In june i was arrested at my home at 7am and ive been on bail since. The charges where first gbh but are now abh. I am 23 and this is my first offence and ive never been in trouble before. I will not plea guilty as i feel i done what anyone else in that situation would of done and i wasnt the one out with all my friends clearly looking for trouble. Ive been to court 3 times since but the police are stalling every time with watching video evidence and it seems they are not taking it seriously. I got back to court 2 weeks from tomorrow and my life has basically been put on hold for 6months because of this incident. I feel like i am the scape goat as no on else is in trouble for this. I would love a few opinions from people outside of this and what i should be expecting to happen.

Thanks

[ummmm]

I don't think hitting someone with a glass will be considered self defense.

[2sp_]

Have you got a Solicitor? What have they said?

You did strike the first blow, and used a glass too. I think self defense would be hard to argue in those circumstances.

[ck1]

Glassing someone is pretty extreme in those circumstances, he must have had some pretty nasty injuries and probably does have a justifiable argument for self defense

[jackthehat]

See Page 12 onwards.

You were the Aggressor because you threw the first punch (with a glass in your hand) thereby escalating the situation.

[rickrocks]

Ok thanks for your replies but the video tape really does do it justice. So just a quick question... what would of you of done in my shoes? Let him potentially pull a weapon out which they all did end up having on them and using it on a family member or myself? And yes i have a solicitor. They say it is beatable because i was with family and they were in a group and had weapons on them.

[jackthehat]

http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/Assault_definitive_guideline_-_Crown_Court.pdf

[rickrocks]

What i didnt mention as i could not fit it all in as they havent spoke to any of theother guys since that night. There is no one pressing charges i am the only person involved in this case until i have to have witnesses to call on which would be my family.

[2sp_]

Hindsight is always 20/20, so I think it's hard to say what I would have done. I like to think I would have approached staff who could have called the police and got them to deal with it.

I've never been in your situation though.

Did you know that they had weapons before you hit out? I would follow the advice of your Solicitor if they say that they can argue your self defence.

[Buenchico]

The court has to consider both 'harm' and 'culpability'. You've not actually mentioned the extent of your victim's injuries but, given that they were serious enough for the CPS to consider charging you with GBH, I must assume that that they are likely to push the 'harm' factor into the 'higher' category.

The use of a weapon would normally push 'culpability' into the 'higher' category as well. If both factors are at the higher level, the court must pass a custodial sentence of between 1 and 3 years imprisonment, with a 'starting point' sentence of 18 months. (The court could not pass a non-custodial sentence other than in genuinely exceptional circumstances).

However the use of excessive self-defence is a factor which could push the 'culpability' factor down to the 'lower' level. In which case (combined with the higher level of harm) the 'starting point' is still a custodial sentence (of 6 months) but the court can pass a non-custodial sentence instead. (The maximum sentence would be 51 weeks).

Those sentences are for first-time offenders who are convicted after a trial. They can be checked here:
http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/Assault_definitive_guideline_-_Crown_Court.pdf
(See pages 11 to 14)
A guilty plea (preferably at the earliest opportunity) can se sentencing reduced (by up to one third in the case of custodial sentences).

In my opinion you have absolutely no chance of avoiding conviction by pleading not guilty. If you enter such a plea you WILL be convicted and you WILL go to prison. If you enter a guilty plea but allow your solicitor/barrister to submit the mitigating circumstances, you PROBABLY WON'T go to prison. Speak to your solicitor/barrister a.s.a.p. to see if he/she agrees with me!

Chris

[rickrocks]

When i was talking to them when i was getting my food one of they guys.. not the one that followed me mentioned i would get shanked. Im from romford so you get alot of hot heads from london coming in and causing trouble and i wasnt willing to take the chance.

[rickrocks]

i wouldnt call the guy a victim... but they did take a statement from him that night. Firstly he lied about hes name. Secondly he lied about what happend as he said he hadnt ever seen me and when i hit him was the first time he new anything which the tape shows is another lie. The notes police wrote were that he did have a deep cut to hes cheek. When being interviewed the detective did agree with me that the action was a slap with the glass.

[New Judge]

Before you get bogged down with Crown Court sentencing guidelines, have you entered your plea yet? You say you have been to court three times. ABH is an "either way" offence and can be dealt with either in the Crown Court or the Magistrates' Court. By now you should have entered your plea but even if you have not a decision should have been made as to where your trial will be held. Has this happened yet? That decision will give a good indication of the Magistrates' view of the matter and provide a guide to the likely sentence should you be convicted.

[rickrocks]

I have entered a not guilty plea. I ive been to crown court two times for my preliminary and the judge was getting the ump saying that this was a waste of time case as the police wasnt doing much. Im not the most clued up with all of this which is why i take the advice and go with it.

[New Judge]

Did the Magistrates order a Crown Court trial or did you elect for one yourself?

[EDDIE51]

You need to contact your solicitor and change your plea to Guilty .
If you persist in trying to go with a not guilty plea and go to trial you ARE going to be found guilty that is 100% certain. By changing your plea to guilty you may just get away with a non custodial sentence.The judge is saying it is a waste of time because he knows you are guilty and that you will inevitably be found guilty so it is a waste of time insisting on a trial. The police do not have to 'Do Much' as you have admitted hitting the other guy first with a glass and causing a deep cut. There is no way you can possibly be not guilty so just stop trying to justify your action and change your plea.
There is now a good chance of getting a prison sentence as you have already wasted so much police and court time in insisting on a not guilty plea when there is undeniable evidence that you are guilty, but as I said a guilty plea now may just get you off with out a jail term.

[joko]

what exactly were they saying to your sister?
and what did you say to them?

just wondering why they were so affronted by it ... if you truly only said something like 'she's only 15 guys', most blokes would have just walked away realising their error.

[shoota]

I think that you would be better off depending on the advice of your solicitor, who is in possession of all the facts, rather than asking for an opinion based only on what you have told us.

[rickrocks]

i said you dont need to talk to her shes 15 and they was like na wel Fluffing talk to her if we like we dont care how old she is. So i said whatever but dont talk to her shes my little sister. so thats when i walked away back to my family and sat down and i was followed. It doesnt take much for a group of black guys to start trouble where im from. maybe it was a thing of my sticking up for myself. Oh well ill just have to just roll with the punches and hope for the best.