Employment Law Question

[cassa333]

Hello,

We have a new employee in a sensative finacial work position who came with very good references and is able to do his job. He is employed on a 6 month probationary period of which he has worked 3 months.

Although he can do the job (but complains bitterly he doesn't have enough hrs) he is a pain in the arse and doesn't fit in with the rest of the staff team. Has caused disscent and has openly questioned the ability of higher management.

Can we just get rid of him (without being sued)?

We also have resently empled a new member of the management team and he has been sucked in to this mans games of bitching and back biting, although he was been a bit cleaver by trying to distance himself from the arse as he realised no one likes him.

Should, if we are able to get rid of the pain, try to get the new management bloke to calm down and see how he then gets on or will he just not be happy do you think?

Thanks

[woofgang]

If he's on probation, is there anything in the probation agreement about what he can and cannot be let go for? If there isn't then just let him go. As for the other bloke, who is his manager? Maybe he/she could have a word along the lines of "I've noticed that you don;t seem to be happy here lately????"

oh but PS maybe the arse, even though he is an arse might be right about the abilities of the higher management team? Its been known!

[joko]

i agree with woof. the new guy maybe just got sucked in because he wanted things to work out - the other fella has obviously realised he 'backed the wrong horse' and has made steps to move away, so be fair and see how he goes

i also agree that although some people are just awful moaners, sometimes they have good reason to moan ... its unfortunate because its possibly a kind of boy who cried wolf scenario, in that he has moaned that much seemingly without real foundation that when he does have a genuine issue, he is ignored.

try to get to the bottom of what is wrong with him, because he must know hes on a trial period and must know that he isnt 'safe' so its an odd way to behave if not true

i have had problems in the past and i am not good at 'just getting on with it' when management/bosses etc are being unreasonable or unfair - when you know deep down you are not at fault and are just dealing with someone who just doesnt like you - id rather leave or be sacked that have that happening.
some people are just cruel bullies.

[boxtops]

Did your new employee have induction targets set for him, so his work could be monitored as he settled in? Is he having regular 1:1s to see how he's getting on (i.e. minin-appraisals)? He may be as unhappy as you are.

How big is your organisation?

[Peter Pedant]

The three monther I think you can just lay off
as he doesnt have any rights being employed by you for less than 24 m

[cassa333]

His work is as required but he has made assumtions on the ability of higher management based on the fact they won't pander to him.

A nearly 60 yr old man who has the mannerisms of the infants I see at school but who demands respect though gives none back.

The new manager was getting along fine until he made a potentialy devistating accusation based on assuming someone else had done a task that they said they did and then compounded it by not realising they hadn't done it.

TBF he was trying to show he was on the ball and got swept up in the moment (but it could have put us in a real fix). Now he is having long drawn out chats with arse hole man and getting a bit shirty with the other managers.

If he just distanced himslef from ah man he would be fine.

I think he thinks we are looking to get rid of him but we are not. It was overenthusiasm on his part but he does need to distance himself fro AH man

[cassa333]

I would just call him in and say he is no longer required but they are just too scared of getting the procedure wrong.

We have a long term member of staff that refuses to do his job that we can't get rid of because he suffers from 'work related stress' He would cry discrimination if we even hinted that he was to get a warning let alone dismissed :(

I can see them procrastinating for a year just to find out it is too late and they have to keep him lol

[Twenty20]

If he's been employed less the 2 years you can get rid of him without giving any reason - and it's perhaps best not to give a reason. Simply tell him he's no longer required, pay him his notice period and, so long as there's been no discrimination etc, then there's no come back on you.

Whereas previously it didn't cost an ex employee anything to file a claim for unfair dismissal, it does now and it's cut down the number of frivolous claims.

[woofgang]

cassa yes you can get rid of the work related stress idiot, You just need the right policies and procedures.

[cassa333]

Woofgang, I keep saying if we use the policies we already have we could have got rid of him ages ago but they are so frightened of doing the wrong thing they end up making it easier for him to 'play the system' and the WRS disability card.

[thugulike]

Check whether your disciplinary policy is in your contract of employment. If it is then you would have to go through a disciplinary or capability procedure prior to dismissal. If your disciplinary policy is outwith your contract you can dismiss any time before the employee has accrued 2 years service without going through any policy at all. I would just meet with him and explain that he doesn't fit in and say you are dismissing him for 'some other substantial reason' which is recognised as an acceptable reason for dismissal. The crux of this is where the disciplinary policy lies.

[thugulike]

WRS is not a disability card. You can legitimately dismiss an employee for lack of capability through ill health. It sounds as though he is at work. I'm not seeing that he can claim WRS if he's still there and working.

[cassa333]

He goes off 'with stress' at the drop of the hat if there is something he doesn't want to do.

[thugulike]

In order to qualify as a disability under the Equality Act he needs to have been stressed for at least a year and needs to demonstrate how it adversely affects his everyday life. Not easy to prove in tribunal and the only claim he could possibly make would be Disability Discrimination. The longer you leave it the stronger his claim could be.

[Hypognosis]

For the work related stress person, all you need to do is keep a diary of what work assignments were issued to them on any given day, showing which ones they were happy with and able to complete and which ones triggered incidences of going off, sick.
When the evaded tasks ate reassigned to some other member of staff, get this other person to rate the work as easy/hard, rewarding/menial and so on.
With accumulating records of other staff coping easily with tasks that trigger their stress, you should be able to dismiss as unfit for duties and I doubt they would stand a chance at a tribunal (unless they'd been subjected to a bullying campaign, or similar).

I do wish employers were less scared of getting procedures wrong, more decisive and willing to take the financial hit of one or two mistakes, as they learn to get it right. Less distress for employees on the way out, too. Nothing worse than being the mouse while the cat plays with its food.