ChatterBank15 mins ago
Is This Really Basis For An Estoppel Claim?
31 Answers
I am hoping someone will take the time to answer, as I feel the need for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion!
I will give as many details in as brief a format as I can..
I have inherited a property from my father who died intestate. Letters of Admin were completed with Solictor and the 6 month claim period is also over.
This property is currently occupied by my fathers nephew who despite my giving him 1 months notice, has not vacated and is now refusing to leave. He recently sought Solicitors advice and they informed mine that the nephew will continue to reside in the property according to his uncles (my fathers) wishes as my father had indicated to him that he would be entitled to live in the property for the rest of his life. To add to this, on several occasions my father had verbally told him that the property would be left to him (apparently).
My Solictor referred me to her Litigant Colleague who seemed to think that the only procedure to take would be to issue a court order for eviction, which would be defended by the nephew on the basis of the information above. The word Estoppel was mentioned briefly, so I am assuming this would be the claim the nephew would be going for?
My Solicitor told me that his chances of success are likely, and my best option would be Mediation.
I have a hard time believing this and have done as much research as I possibly can on Estoppel cases but the outcomes do seem to be widely varied.
I would really appreciate some more opinions on this as I am being warned that I could be faced with £20,000 + court fees with not much chance of winning.
I do not know the nephew at all, only met him a handful of times so can only tell his background as I have been led to believe by him.
My father purchased the property, the nephew moved in with him and contributed money each month towards payment of bills.
I do not understand why my Solicitor would think that this would be a good basis for a claim.
Can anyone advise?
Thanks in advance.
I will give as many details in as brief a format as I can..
I have inherited a property from my father who died intestate. Letters of Admin were completed with Solictor and the 6 month claim period is also over.
This property is currently occupied by my fathers nephew who despite my giving him 1 months notice, has not vacated and is now refusing to leave. He recently sought Solicitors advice and they informed mine that the nephew will continue to reside in the property according to his uncles (my fathers) wishes as my father had indicated to him that he would be entitled to live in the property for the rest of his life. To add to this, on several occasions my father had verbally told him that the property would be left to him (apparently).
My Solictor referred me to her Litigant Colleague who seemed to think that the only procedure to take would be to issue a court order for eviction, which would be defended by the nephew on the basis of the information above. The word Estoppel was mentioned briefly, so I am assuming this would be the claim the nephew would be going for?
My Solicitor told me that his chances of success are likely, and my best option would be Mediation.
I have a hard time believing this and have done as much research as I possibly can on Estoppel cases but the outcomes do seem to be widely varied.
I would really appreciate some more opinions on this as I am being warned that I could be faced with £20,000 + court fees with not much chance of winning.
I do not know the nephew at all, only met him a handful of times so can only tell his background as I have been led to believe by him.
My father purchased the property, the nephew moved in with him and contributed money each month towards payment of bills.
I do not understand why my Solicitor would think that this would be a good basis for a claim.
Can anyone advise?
Thanks in advance.
Answers
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When ( or if) you are selling the house anyone visiting is gonna notice the occupier who presumably is not reticent about his claimed right to live there.
so if you get tired of estoppel then try the related area of equitable rights of occupiers. and yes there are zillions of them starting I think with Ainsworth ( 1965)
// I do not understand why my Solicitor would think that this would be a good basis for a claim. //
The nephew is relying on (claimed) statements made to him before your father's death on which the nephew acted ( and would suffer detriment). This is exactly how estoppel arises.
we have a will-writer on AB and how often we all wonder that this would never have arisen if a will had been written. Sorry
It sounds as tho it would be much cheaper to come to some sort of arrangement with the fella - this is not legal advice but a suggested course of action to maximise the mun-mun you get and minimise the amount you pour into lawyers pockets.
When ( or if) you are selling the house anyone visiting is gonna notice the occupier who presumably is not reticent about his claimed right to live there.
so if you get tired of estoppel then try the related area of equitable rights of occupiers. and yes there are zillions of them starting I think with Ainsworth ( 1965)
// I do not understand why my Solicitor would think that this would be a good basis for a claim. //
The nephew is relying on (claimed) statements made to him before your father's death on which the nephew acted ( and would suffer detriment). This is exactly how estoppel arises.
we have a will-writer on AB and how often we all wonder that this would never have arisen if a will had been written. Sorry
It sounds as tho it would be much cheaper to come to some sort of arrangement with the fella - this is not legal advice but a suggested course of action to maximise the mun-mun you get and minimise the amount you pour into lawyers pockets.
Thanks Peter for your response. I was unaware any different action could be taken if the Nephew brings about an estoppel claim?
He hasn't actually done this yet, my solicitor seems to think he is waiting until I send an eviction notice.. so I don't suppose there is any other way I can prevent an estoppel claim from being brought forward?
Do you think the Nephew can claim detrimental reliance considering all he did was contribute towards bills? (There is no written evidence of this, the nephew told me it was cash in hand)
Does the court ever take text messages into account? I had several texts from him over the months that talked about the house coming to me, and no mention that it was promised to him whatsoever. Surely any judge would assume this would have been brought up the second my father passed away, nearly a year ago?
Much appreciated, thank you.
He hasn't actually done this yet, my solicitor seems to think he is waiting until I send an eviction notice.. so I don't suppose there is any other way I can prevent an estoppel claim from being brought forward?
Do you think the Nephew can claim detrimental reliance considering all he did was contribute towards bills? (There is no written evidence of this, the nephew told me it was cash in hand)
Does the court ever take text messages into account? I had several texts from him over the months that talked about the house coming to me, and no mention that it was promised to him whatsoever. Surely any judge would assume this would have been brought up the second my father passed away, nearly a year ago?
Much appreciated, thank you.
I went through something a bit similar quite a few years ago now. I and the others involved actually got as far as getting advice from a legal specialist who had literally written the (a) book on property ownership litigation. As he saw it, the problem with estoppel claims arising from death is that by their nature, they often have no documentary proof. Judges are aware of this and factor it into their considerations, so unless there is any solid fact or really strong argument one way or the other, its blooming hard to predict which way they will go. In your case, particularly hard as your father didn't leave a will AND your cousin was living with him.
The way to stop an estoppel claim is to mediate!
The way to stop an estoppel claim is to mediate!
Yes, I was afraid you were going to say that.
I posted this question on another forum like this and have had a similar opinion.
I posted that out of principal (and intense anger) that I would rather pay a lawyer twice the amount I would have paid to settle if I knew I would win, than let the nephew walk away with anything.
I haven't had an easy life, and I am sure if they took my circumstances into consideration I would win, but they don't do they.
I was very fair to this guy, I told him he could stay in the house while everything was being sorted as long as he took care of his bills - I didn't charge him a penny. It has been almost a year since my Father died, and not once has this nephew mentioned anything about claiming the house. Instead I have had text messages stating that the house would be mine, and more recently a query as to whether he could purchase the property. If none of this is taken into account I cannot see any justice in the legal system and feel this nephew has taken advantage and got me right where he wants me.
I know my Father didn't write a will as he wouldn't have wanted to upset the family by leaving it all to me, so he put it in the hands of the law. He wasn't able to give me the start in life I needed as he wasn't around, so I feel this was his way of making it up to me on his death and now someone is trying to take some of it away. I'm sure even though none of this information may help you, someone can understand how I feel?
I posted this question on another forum like this and have had a similar opinion.
I posted that out of principal (and intense anger) that I would rather pay a lawyer twice the amount I would have paid to settle if I knew I would win, than let the nephew walk away with anything.
I haven't had an easy life, and I am sure if they took my circumstances into consideration I would win, but they don't do they.
I was very fair to this guy, I told him he could stay in the house while everything was being sorted as long as he took care of his bills - I didn't charge him a penny. It has been almost a year since my Father died, and not once has this nephew mentioned anything about claiming the house. Instead I have had text messages stating that the house would be mine, and more recently a query as to whether he could purchase the property. If none of this is taken into account I cannot see any justice in the legal system and feel this nephew has taken advantage and got me right where he wants me.
I know my Father didn't write a will as he wouldn't have wanted to upset the family by leaving it all to me, so he put it in the hands of the law. He wasn't able to give me the start in life I needed as he wasn't around, so I feel this was his way of making it up to me on his death and now someone is trying to take some of it away. I'm sure even though none of this information may help you, someone can understand how I feel?
I do understand how you feel - very p****d off; & I probably would be as well in your situation.
However, although I don't know much about Court action of this sort of thing, I suspect a lot of factors would go into making the judge's decision. These would include how truthful he perceived the nephew to be, how long he had lived with your father, whether he paid any rent (it seems he didn't), why he lived there, whether he was/is working & able to support himself, if he is not working why not etc. etc.
You may also need to consider whether he should be paying you rent - either now or if he succeeds in his claim & you have to accept him going on living there. The terms of his occupancy could well end up being nearly as contentious as the estoppel claim - more legal fees?
I don't suggest you post all this here but they are things you might need to consider as issues to be clarified if you go to mediation. Basically, as I see it he is what is called an excluded occupier & has minimal security unless he can succeed in his estoppel claim.
My view - for what its worth - is that you should try mediation provided you are not committed to accept the outcome. Without knowing the value of the property it is difficult to comment, but it could be that you offer him sufficient for him to move out & find somewhere else to live. Of course, whether he could get a mortgage depends on his finances.
However, although I don't know much about Court action of this sort of thing, I suspect a lot of factors would go into making the judge's decision. These would include how truthful he perceived the nephew to be, how long he had lived with your father, whether he paid any rent (it seems he didn't), why he lived there, whether he was/is working & able to support himself, if he is not working why not etc. etc.
You may also need to consider whether he should be paying you rent - either now or if he succeeds in his claim & you have to accept him going on living there. The terms of his occupancy could well end up being nearly as contentious as the estoppel claim - more legal fees?
I don't suggest you post all this here but they are things you might need to consider as issues to be clarified if you go to mediation. Basically, as I see it he is what is called an excluded occupier & has minimal security unless he can succeed in his estoppel claim.
My view - for what its worth - is that you should try mediation provided you are not committed to accept the outcome. Without knowing the value of the property it is difficult to comment, but it could be that you offer him sufficient for him to move out & find somewhere else to live. Of course, whether he could get a mortgage depends on his finances.
Thank You for your support.. I suppose in Mediation I could say that he's already had so many £'s worth in rent already! lol
I'm beginning to realise this is my only option - much as I don't want to accept it. Thank you for your comments. There really should be a time limit for Estoppel claims.. just like the Inheritance Act claim.
I'm beginning to realise this is my only option - much as I don't want to accept it. Thank you for your comments. There really should be a time limit for Estoppel claims.. just like the Inheritance Act claim.
ANewDawn - no one can give you the advice you ask for without seeing the papers and the detail. The devil in these cases is in the detail.
Seeing as you have a solicitor, I suggest you take his advice and if necessary, ask him to involve Counsel at an early stage.
For what it is worth though, in the previous post, Woofgang has pretty much nailed it. Promise, detriment and reliance - each of those will need investigating. A good case to read is Thorner v Major - see link here:- http://
Seeing as you have a solicitor, I suggest you take his advice and if necessary, ask him to involve Counsel at an early stage.
For what it is worth though, in the previous post, Woofgang has pretty much nailed it. Promise, detriment and reliance - each of those will need investigating. A good case to read is Thorner v Major - see link here:- http://
Thank you Barmaid, just wanted to know my Solicitor was definately on the right track as I feel a bit misled by them as they didn't sit me down and explain in detail that this is something that could come up. I was just led to believe that once the 6 month claim period was over, he would be a trespasser and everything would be officially mine.
Question if I may...
If it went to court and it was decided in his favour, can I appeal with any evidence and statements I may have?
Do you have any idea what sort of outcome we could be looking at? I understand that it seems to be varied, and I have read all the Estoppel cases I have been able to find.. Is it unlikely he would get the house? I am hoping if it came to the worst, they may just award him some money to move elsewhere (ie - any money contributions he made, given back to him)
Question if I may...
If it went to court and it was decided in his favour, can I appeal with any evidence and statements I may have?
Do you have any idea what sort of outcome we could be looking at? I understand that it seems to be varied, and I have read all the Estoppel cases I have been able to find.. Is it unlikely he would get the house? I am hoping if it came to the worst, they may just award him some money to move elsewhere (ie - any money contributions he made, given back to him)
Thank you, I have read that claim, and many other Estoppel claims, some of which I can't believe they got through, but most of which would make me think the Nephew didn't have a chance in hell - unless he and his Solicitor are privvy to information that mine are not..
I am waiting for the Solicitor to get in touch with me with costs and details before we go any further so I will endeavor to ask him more questions when I next speak to him..
Isn't there a way to prevent an estoppel claim being brought forward in the first place... or can you counteract an estoppel with another estoppel, or is this "tit for tat"?? It's just the Nephew promised me at the outset of all this that no one in his family would contest anything or cause me a problem.. and now his possible claim would be going back on that promise would it not? Clutching at straws here...I know!
I am waiting for the Solicitor to get in touch with me with costs and details before we go any further so I will endeavor to ask him more questions when I next speak to him..
Isn't there a way to prevent an estoppel claim being brought forward in the first place... or can you counteract an estoppel with another estoppel, or is this "tit for tat"?? It's just the Nephew promised me at the outset of all this that no one in his family would contest anything or cause me a problem.. and now his possible claim would be going back on that promise would it not? Clutching at straws here...I know!
Your last para. is for you to discuss with your solicitor.
Nephew claims that your father "had indicated to him that he would be entitled to live in the property for the rest of his life".
As I said before I know little about this but it seems to me this raises questions about the terms on which he was to occupy. Was he to pay rent? If so how much & how was it to be reviewed? Could he have anyone else living there with him? Who was to maintain the property? Issues of this kind would need to be decided if his claim succeeded - either as part of the estoppel case (if that is possible) or separately later.
Nephew claims that your father "had indicated to him that he would be entitled to live in the property for the rest of his life".
As I said before I know little about this but it seems to me this raises questions about the terms on which he was to occupy. Was he to pay rent? If so how much & how was it to be reviewed? Could he have anyone else living there with him? Who was to maintain the property? Issues of this kind would need to be decided if his claim succeeded - either as part of the estoppel case (if that is possible) or separately later.
As I understand it, if an estoppel case goes to court then representatives for both sides present their evidence. The claimant has to prove promise, reliance, detriment and the defendant has the opportunity to refute under those three headings. Certainly when we were going to defend against a claim of estoppel, we produced the evidence that we had and that was considered by out solicitor and by the expert council we took advice from and, as I understand it would have been presented in court. The advice that we received was that the case, and any subsequent allocation of costs would be too close to call and negotiation would be our best option which is what we did.
Can I ask who told you that you couldn't present evidence?
Can I ask who told you that you couldn't present evidence?
Themas I didn't even think about the future agreements like rent etc, and I am currently paying for the Building Insurance myself.
Woofgang - My Solicitor didn't tell me that information, I read it on various info sites about Estoppel claims preventing the defendent from having their say - but perhaps I got this part wrong.
It would be useful if I could present evidence, I do have text messages kept that would be useful as evidence.
Woofgang - My Solicitor didn't tell me that information, I read it on various info sites about Estoppel claims preventing the defendent from having their say - but perhaps I got this part wrong.
It would be useful if I could present evidence, I do have text messages kept that would be useful as evidence.
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