ChatterBank1 min ago
Diy Wills...
My wife & I need to make new wills - nothing complicated - if either of us die then the surviving spouse gets everything, or if we go together an equal split among friends' & family's children (no children of our own...).
As it is so (apparently) simple, I can't envisage any problems with using a DIY will kit, rather than paying a solicitor to draw them up.
Am I being naïve (and mean!)?
TIA
As it is so (apparently) simple, I can't envisage any problems with using a DIY will kit, rather than paying a solicitor to draw them up.
Am I being naïve (and mean!)?
TIA
Answers
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I used to write wills for a living. Here's what I advise:
1. Forget about using any 'kits'. They can easily fail to ask you important questions (e.g. if you leave money to X, what should happen if X dies before you do?).
2. Get hold of a copy of this book:
Amazon.co.uk User Recommendation
(It's in almost every library in the country. It won't matter if you find a slightly older edition; the basic rules won't have changed).
3. Draft your own wills, based upon what you've read in the book. (Simply type them onto plain paper).
4. If you're 100% confident that what you've produced fully reflects your wishes and is completely watertight, sign your wills in front of two witnesses and get them to add their signatures. (It's all explained in the book).
5. If you've got any doubts about what you've produced, take your drafts to a solicitor and get him/her to 'tidy them up'
6. When you've made your wills, tell the executors (and/or beneficiaries) that you've done so and where you've put them. (It's likely that thousands of wills get ignored every year, with the intestacy rules being applied instead, simply because the wills are never found).
1. Forget about using any 'kits'. They can easily fail to ask you important questions (e.g. if you leave money to X, what should happen if X dies before you do?).
2. Get hold of a copy of this book:
Amazon.co.uk User Recommendation
(It's in almost every library in the country. It won't matter if you find a slightly older edition; the basic rules won't have changed).
3. Draft your own wills, based upon what you've read in the book. (Simply type them onto plain paper).
4. If you're 100% confident that what you've produced fully reflects your wishes and is completely watertight, sign your wills in front of two witnesses and get them to add their signatures. (It's all explained in the book).
5. If you've got any doubts about what you've produced, take your drafts to a solicitor and get him/her to 'tidy them up'
6. When you've made your wills, tell the executors (and/or beneficiaries) that you've done so and where you've put them. (It's likely that thousands of wills get ignored every year, with the intestacy rules being applied instead, simply because the wills are never found).
Buenchico may be able to comment on this, but one "problem" I can see is that if you are leaving money to friends children (I guess not related to you in any way) some of your relatives may be able to contest the will.
And as has been said, wills can get complex if somebody dies before somebody else.
There was a huge row in my family about 40 years ago because of wills.
My grandmother was one of about 7 sisters (all named after flowers - Iris, May, Ivy, Rose etc)
One of the sisters (she never married) died and in her will left a fair bit of money to be shared equally amongst the other sisters.
But one of the sisters (my grandmother actually) died BEFORE the will was read.
So there was a big debate about if the money should go to my grandfather as his wife was alive when the other sister died, but not alive when the will was read.
It caused a huge row, some sisters on one side, some sisters on the other side, and it got so nasty that some of the sisters never spoke to each other again the rest of their lives.
Beware of a "simple " will.
And as has been said, wills can get complex if somebody dies before somebody else.
There was a huge row in my family about 40 years ago because of wills.
My grandmother was one of about 7 sisters (all named after flowers - Iris, May, Ivy, Rose etc)
One of the sisters (she never married) died and in her will left a fair bit of money to be shared equally amongst the other sisters.
But one of the sisters (my grandmother actually) died BEFORE the will was read.
So there was a big debate about if the money should go to my grandfather as his wife was alive when the other sister died, but not alive when the will was read.
It caused a huge row, some sisters on one side, some sisters on the other side, and it got so nasty that some of the sisters never spoke to each other again the rest of their lives.
Beware of a "simple " will.
Chris' excellent answer missed a couple of points if I may say so.
Don't name a solicitor or solicitor's firm as executor. Its an expensive way of doing it and complicated if the solicitor or the firm stop practicing. The executor(s) can employ a solicitor if they feel the need for help. They can either just get the solicitor to do the lot or do what I did and just get him to do the bits that they can't/don't want to do.
I have given my executor a copy of my will and a letter with some personal stuff in. The letter has no legal standing but has information in that may be helpful, like how to rehome my tortoises if it becomes necessary.
Don't name a solicitor or solicitor's firm as executor. Its an expensive way of doing it and complicated if the solicitor or the firm stop practicing. The executor(s) can employ a solicitor if they feel the need for help. They can either just get the solicitor to do the lot or do what I did and just get him to do the bits that they can't/don't want to do.
I have given my executor a copy of my will and a letter with some personal stuff in. The letter has no legal standing but has information in that may be helpful, like how to rehome my tortoises if it becomes necessary.
>>>one "problem" I can see is that if you are leaving money to friends children (I guess not related to you in any way) some of your relatives may be able to contest the will.
As a rule (other than where a will is contested on 'technical' grounds, e.g. because it wasn't properly witnessed) a will can only be successfully challenged by someone who can show that they had a reasonable right to expect something (or something more) from the will. They might, for example, seek to show that they were financially dependent upon the testator immediately prior to their death (and that it would be reasonable to expect some form of financial provision to continue).
It is most certainly NOT good enough simply to say "I was his/her closest relative, therefore I ought to get something". The whole point of writing a will is to nullify the intestacy rules, so it would be ridiculous if someone could simply say (in effect) "I want those rules to apply all the same".
None of my family are beneficiaries under my will and I've tried to write it in such a way that they'd stand no chance of successfully challenging it!
>>>Don't name a solicitor or solicitor's firm as executor.
Excellent advice!
Equally, don't name a bank, an accountant or any other 'professional'. The task of an executor is usually a simple one but, if they don't feel that they're up to it, they can still engage the services of a solicitor (with his/her fee coming from the estate).
As a rule (other than where a will is contested on 'technical' grounds, e.g. because it wasn't properly witnessed) a will can only be successfully challenged by someone who can show that they had a reasonable right to expect something (or something more) from the will. They might, for example, seek to show that they were financially dependent upon the testator immediately prior to their death (and that it would be reasonable to expect some form of financial provision to continue).
It is most certainly NOT good enough simply to say "I was his/her closest relative, therefore I ought to get something". The whole point of writing a will is to nullify the intestacy rules, so it would be ridiculous if someone could simply say (in effect) "I want those rules to apply all the same".
None of my family are beneficiaries under my will and I've tried to write it in such a way that they'd stand no chance of successfully challenging it!
>>>Don't name a solicitor or solicitor's firm as executor.
Excellent advice!
Equally, don't name a bank, an accountant or any other 'professional'. The task of an executor is usually a simple one but, if they don't feel that they're up to it, they can still engage the services of a solicitor (with his/her fee coming from the estate).
Chris just in passing
your advice as ever was spot on
in the case of the sister-flowers
isnt it clear that if you leave moolah to Iris Ada Anemone and Nettle,
- and Nettle is dead at the time the will comes into operation,
then Mr Nettle doesnt get it ?
It is more moot about - do the nettle children if any ..... ?
your advice as ever was spot on
in the case of the sister-flowers
isnt it clear that if you leave moolah to Iris Ada Anemone and Nettle,
- and Nettle is dead at the time the will comes into operation,
then Mr Nettle doesnt get it ?
It is more moot about - do the nettle children if any ..... ?
PP:
I think you lost me somewhere there!
If your post relates to a beneficiary pre-deceasing the testator (where the will makes no provision for such a circumstance) then if the deceased beneficiary was a child of the testator (and he/she also had children) then the grandchildren get that part of the estate shared equally between them. If the deceased beneficiary was not a child of the testator (or didn't have children) then their part of the estate is redirected to the residuary beneficiary (if the will names one, ot it's otherwise clear who should be regarded as the residuary beneficiary). If the residuary beneficiary dies before the testator a partial intestacy is created, meaning that the relevant part of the estate is distributed under the intestacy rules.
All of which actually means that any decently-drafted will should take into consideration what should happen if a beneficiary pre-deceases a testator and make clear provision for it. Then things won't start to get complicated!
I think you lost me somewhere there!
If your post relates to a beneficiary pre-deceasing the testator (where the will makes no provision for such a circumstance) then if the deceased beneficiary was a child of the testator (and he/she also had children) then the grandchildren get that part of the estate shared equally between them. If the deceased beneficiary was not a child of the testator (or didn't have children) then their part of the estate is redirected to the residuary beneficiary (if the will names one, ot it's otherwise clear who should be regarded as the residuary beneficiary). If the residuary beneficiary dies before the testator a partial intestacy is created, meaning that the relevant part of the estate is distributed under the intestacy rules.
All of which actually means that any decently-drafted will should take into consideration what should happen if a beneficiary pre-deceases a testator and make clear provision for it. Then things won't start to get complicated!
Definitely do not name a solicitor or firm of solicitors as executor. My dad did - the guy he knew was told not to act and to transfer it to a colleague, who not only made a complete b****s up of it (a year later we had a tax demand and it turned out that he had not actually applied for probate!) but actively tried to set my sister and myself (equal beneficiaries) against each other. We are very close, however, showed each other his letters and refused to make him more money. I ended up refusing to speak to him and sending all letters via his head of chambers. Took a while, but we got there. He even had the cheek to try to send us a separate bill for applying for probate after we had paid up once!! At that point I threatened the ombudsman (via head of chambers) and got a tight little reply saying that we did not have to pay - if he never, ever heard from me again! So - I've calmed down now - don't appoint a solicitor!
>>>but why is it so expensive to buy
Not a clue, sorry!
These older editions are god enough for the task that Sfby needs to undertake:
Amazon.co.uk User Recommendation
Not a clue, sorry!
These older editions are god enough for the task that Sfby needs to undertake:
Amazon.co.uk User Recommendation
Something very odd about this pricing if it is seriously £80.
This edition is number 3, published in 2012. The previous edition 2 was published in 2009. I'm sitting here looking at my copy and it cost the princely sum of £10.99p. It says so printed on the back cover.
If true about the current price Which? are having a laugh. Maybe they should undertake an investigation into rip-offs in the pricing of books.
Which? also provide a will making service that in 2009 could be accessed for £79 for a simple single will if one had the book. Maybe they have slashed the price of the price of the will making service and loaded it front-end into the book cost. Very strange.
This edition is number 3, published in 2012. The previous edition 2 was published in 2009. I'm sitting here looking at my copy and it cost the princely sum of £10.99p. It says so printed on the back cover.
If true about the current price Which? are having a laugh. Maybe they should undertake an investigation into rip-offs in the pricing of books.
Which? also provide a will making service that in 2009 could be accessed for £79 for a simple single will if one had the book. Maybe they have slashed the price of the price of the will making service and loaded it front-end into the book cost. Very strange.
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