Eu Laws Renegotiable?

[David H]

I am currently in a discussion whether what we learnt at college is a fixed or flexible rule, that is once created it is not possible to renegotiate or amend existing EU laws, such as free movement, metrication, green taxes etc.

Unlike national laws which are guaranteed reversible on government majority EU laws are mainly made by the Commission and would presumably either need a unanimous vote by all states to replace or alter or otherwise would last forever, which is pretty much the picture we were presented.

Is this correct, if not then how could a country do as Cameron suggests and initiate a one sided negotiation of existing laws, or is it legally and constitutionally impossible (authorities required)?

[Old_Geezer]

I can not give a legal/expert answer but IMO nothing is unreversable. If you can not convince those with power you can always leave. But the threat of that makes those with power reconsider their position.

[BlackadderV]

Once we are out, who cares?

[BlackadderV]

Only sovereign nations can make laws. The concepts of supra-national and international law are mere chimeras in my opinion. A law is only as good as it is enforceable.

[David H]

EU law is quite unlike others, it is not made by democratic process and has a status above all others once adopted. You can negotiate and wriggle out until they are finalised but as far as I remember they are written in stone and as long as we remain in it then have no say or power in altering any of them. I have been challenged on this and as my notes are 30 years old and not comprehensive I just need the specific legal position.

[BlackadderV]

I wish I could help you, but during my lectures on EC (as it was then) law I used to go to sleep. Contract, tort and libel, though, I was wide awake.

[jourdain2]

There are very few of us understand all this. None of us voted for an overriding, unchangeable government by the EU. I can't do the legal stuff - but I echo Blackadder; it won't matter once we are out and, frankly, we can tell them one day that 'That's it!' and ignore/disentangle from there. No divorce is straightforward (I know!). Laws made by man can be unmade by man. Sorry I can't help on the legal niceties, I'm sure someone can, but the simple word 'no' will suffice. The legal beagles will have to reorganise to that.

[woofgang]

I wonder what would happen if a member country said "well we're not doing that"....especially one that is a net payer in and not a net receiver...I mean they can't fine you cos you could just stop paying in an equivalent amount and it would take a REALLY big jail cell.

[BlackadderV]

I wonder what would happen if a member country said "well we're not doing that"..

Well, France seem to get away with it!

[woofgang]

Blackadder have you got an example please?

[BlackadderV]

The no smoking laws spring to mind.

[jourdain2]

woofgang - I've not got that sort of brain to be able to cite individual cases, but France pays millions of euros in non-compliance fines a year (and they ignore an awful lot of directives - the local farmers are still using poisons banned in the 90's - they stockpiled them).

[BlackadderV]

The only reason we in the UK bow down to Europe is by virtue of the European Economic Communities Act 1972, especially section 2.2.

All that is needed is an act of parliament entitled The European Economic Communities (amendment ) Act 2014'

It would have but one clause;

s.1 The European Economic Communities Act 1972 is hereby repealed in its entirety.

Job done.

[jourdain2]

Still going with blackadder - I live here, don't forget, and am seeing the appalling tangles and deadness daily because France unthinkingly adopts everything and then ignores the application. E.g. my driving licence.
I have held a full UK driving licence since 1978, it is clean. You have eventually to swap it for a French licence.

A year ago I received a letter saying that France was complying with EU directive to change to a card. Went along, handed it in, got it back a few days later with 'Temporaire' stamped across it and an instruction that they were running late and reapply in 6 months.
Anyone tried to hire a car in UK with a French licence stamped 'Temporaire'? Not funny.
Returned to sous-prefecture and was told the only way around was a wait of another YEAR was to reapply for a new licence, which would enable me to pull a caravan. I did it, it involved a silly medical (can I read a number-plate and stand on one leg (?)), it cost me 38 euros.
Have sent all papers in and am awaiting result and can't book removal date until I get licence. That's European law for you ........................

[David H]

There are clues at least, as a number of experts told Cameron what he's suggesting is legally impossible, and that's what I remember as well. There are official sanctions for each law accepted when broken, if our air quality fails we suffer automatic fines, as we do for most environmental rules they impose.

[woofgang]

well yes but what happens if you just refuse to pay the fine?

[BlackadderV]

They send the heavies round and they break yer legs.

[woofgang]

how many thousand heavies?