News1 min ago
Funeral Costs
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My sister divorced ex husband years ago but still lives in the house they shared and he owns a share of the property. They have both left their share of the property equally to their 2 sons. My sister is the unemployed carer of their adult son who is mentally disabled with Downs Syndrome and she lives on benefits. Her ex husband is also disabled and has not worked for many years and has no savings or insurance she knows of. He is in his 60s.
They are on friendly terms so she will probably want to arrange his funeral if he dies before her or their older son will want to if she is no longer alive.
Will they have to pay for his funeral out of his share of the property? It would mean selling the house to pay for it and that could leave my sister and/or her son's homeless.
They are on friendly terms so she will probably want to arrange his funeral if he dies before her or their older son will want to if she is no longer alive.
Will they have to pay for his funeral out of his share of the property? It would mean selling the house to pay for it and that could leave my sister and/or her son's homeless.
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The funeral grant looks attractive. Correct that if the deceased owned a house which is left to a widow it does not have to be repaid. However, she is not the widow. She is a divorced spouse.
Let's assume he dies, ex-wife arranges funeral with local funeral director. Incurs costs of £3,000. After some time, funeral director gets fed up of waiting for his money and sues the widow. (Whilst the estate is primarily responsible for the funeral costs, if there is no estate (and there is here), the widow will have to pay if she incurred the debt). Result could be a Court case, a CCJ and then potentially a charging order. This *could* result in the sale of the house, but the Court may well take a view on the proportionality - particularly in light of the disabled son.
This needs thinking about now.
One way of avoiding it is to consider the house being transferred into a trust. This could be done relatively simply and at not too much cost (probably £200 - £300 - and you might get a solicitor (or counsel) to accept payments by installment. The trust would need to have some thought put into it as to how it would work (there isnt enough info here) but if the house is owned by the trust then there is no estate on death.
Then the son applies for a funeral grant (he will fit the definition of close relative).
If that is too complicated, I would suggest that the son coughs up the money for the funeral. Very often funeral directors will accept payments by installments.
Let's assume he dies, ex-wife arranges funeral with local funeral director. Incurs costs of £3,000. After some time, funeral director gets fed up of waiting for his money and sues the widow. (Whilst the estate is primarily responsible for the funeral costs, if there is no estate (and there is here), the widow will have to pay if she incurred the debt). Result could be a Court case, a CCJ and then potentially a charging order. This *could* result in the sale of the house, but the Court may well take a view on the proportionality - particularly in light of the disabled son.
This needs thinking about now.
One way of avoiding it is to consider the house being transferred into a trust. This could be done relatively simply and at not too much cost (probably £200 - £300 - and you might get a solicitor (or counsel) to accept payments by installment. The trust would need to have some thought put into it as to how it would work (there isnt enough info here) but if the house is owned by the trust then there is no estate on death.
Then the son applies for a funeral grant (he will fit the definition of close relative).
If that is too complicated, I would suggest that the son coughs up the money for the funeral. Very often funeral directors will accept payments by installments.
no one has asked the question about which kind of ownership the half share of the house is. Are they joint tenants (I know he doesn't live there) or tenants in common? This could make a difference as to whether the house could be sold or not. Alternatively they might consider putting the house in trust for their sons with the wife having a life interest to live there.
Before thinking about the funeral though, there is the issue of payment for care if needed. As I understand it, neither of the above is guaranteed to protect the person's share of the house if they need to go into care as the argument can be made that the actions were taken in order to avoid paying care fees.
PROPER legal advice needed here i think!
Before thinking about the funeral though, there is the issue of payment for care if needed. As I understand it, neither of the above is guaranteed to protect the person's share of the house if they need to go into care as the argument can be made that the actions were taken in order to avoid paying care fees.
PROPER legal advice needed here i think!
I took the view that it was TiC, Woofgang since they talk about "their share" of the property.
This type of scheme may have the indirect advantage of avoiding care home fees (although I doubt they will be relevant in this case because the house is a home for a dependent relative - the disabled son). Given that the "significant reason" was to avoid funeral costs, the family have quite a good argument on this. Council wont like it one jot, but there you go.
This type of scheme may have the indirect advantage of avoiding care home fees (although I doubt they will be relevant in this case because the house is a home for a dependent relative - the disabled son). Given that the "significant reason" was to avoid funeral costs, the family have quite a good argument on this. Council wont like it one jot, but there you go.
If the undertaker is informed from the beginning that the funeral is to be paid for out of a funeral grant they MUST provide a simple but dignified funeral for the cost of the grant. They can not demand money 'up front'.
Many undertakers will try to get you to pay for extras to increase their profit. For example they make 100 to 200% mark up if they supply the flowers!
Many undertakers will try to get you to pay for extras to increase their profit. For example they make 100 to 200% mark up if they supply the flowers!
EDDIE no one on here is discussing what undertakers will or won't do or their alleged iniquities. The discussion here is about how a funeral can be paid for and protect the house. I have no experience of this but I have a feeling that any undertaker would want more than someone's word that they are entitled to a grant and that one will be paid.
When you apply for a funeral grant you get an acknowledgement if it has been granted, this has to be within a week I believe. You can apply online and get the acknowledgement by email. You can also arrange for the undertaker to be informed direct that a grant has been applied for/ granted.
We had to do this when my Mother died, it all went very smoothly the undertaker even helped with the application for the grant.
We had to do this when my Mother died, it all went very smoothly the undertaker even helped with the application for the grant.
Eddie. Please read carefully the link you posted. You do not know whether the older son is working, or what - if any - relevant benefits he is getting. He would be treated as a close relative so a funeral grant would be refused if he didn't qualify - even if the application was made by someone else. Putting the house into a trust would not help if the older son did not qualify for a grant. DWP will not provide these grants if someone who comes within the definition of a close relative does not meet the conditions.
There is reference in some posts to the grant having to be paid back in some cases. These are grants - not loans - so this does not arise. However, it is possible that some people may qualify for a budgeting loan (depending on what benefits they get) which would have to be paid back.
A visit to CAB to find out the detail of the rules for funeral grants and whether one would be available given the individuals' circumstances is necessary. Putting the house in trust may be advisable for other reasons but specialist legal advice is needed. I'm surprised at Barmaid's £200 - £300 for doing it - not in my part of the country! More like you'd add a nought!
There is reference in some posts to the grant having to be paid back in some cases. These are grants - not loans - so this does not arise. However, it is possible that some people may qualify for a budgeting loan (depending on what benefits they get) which would have to be paid back.
A visit to CAB to find out the detail of the rules for funeral grants and whether one would be available given the individuals' circumstances is necessary. Putting the house in trust may be advisable for other reasons but specialist legal advice is needed. I'm surprised at Barmaid's £200 - £300 for doing it - not in my part of the country! More like you'd add a nought!
Thank you everyone for the suggestions.
My sister's older son is not currently working as he was made redundant just before Christmas 2014 but is looking for a job. He is poor at money management and has no savings. He often borrows money from his Mum. He would not be able to pay for his Dad's funeral.
My sister has been unemployed for over 30 years. She has been sole carer for her disabled son and also cared for her ex-husband's disabled mother who lived with her for most of her marriage. Her ex-husband has not worked since their youngest son was very young (about 6 years old) and did very little to support her in caring for him. If she has any savings she will need them to supplement her pension and to pay her own funeral expenses. She doesn't need the burden of having to pay for her ex-husband's funeral too. She will get the basic state pension because she is registered as a carer but won't have any other income in retirement. She is almost 58 so no time to save more and she tells me the DWP watch she doesn't have too much saved or it affects her benefits. They even asked her if she has ever had a holiday abroad (she hasn't) in case they were paying her too much!
Also, she is aware that a share of the property value may be needed to pay for care for her disabled son when she dies and has set up a trust.
I warned her she may have to pay for her ex-husbands funeral and suggested she get proper advice as to where she stands legally.
My sister's older son is not currently working as he was made redundant just before Christmas 2014 but is looking for a job. He is poor at money management and has no savings. He often borrows money from his Mum. He would not be able to pay for his Dad's funeral.
My sister has been unemployed for over 30 years. She has been sole carer for her disabled son and also cared for her ex-husband's disabled mother who lived with her for most of her marriage. Her ex-husband has not worked since their youngest son was very young (about 6 years old) and did very little to support her in caring for him. If she has any savings she will need them to supplement her pension and to pay her own funeral expenses. She doesn't need the burden of having to pay for her ex-husband's funeral too. She will get the basic state pension because she is registered as a carer but won't have any other income in retirement. She is almost 58 so no time to save more and she tells me the DWP watch she doesn't have too much saved or it affects her benefits. They even asked her if she has ever had a holiday abroad (she hasn't) in case they were paying her too much!
Also, she is aware that a share of the property value may be needed to pay for care for her disabled son when she dies and has set up a trust.
I warned her she may have to pay for her ex-husbands funeral and suggested she get proper advice as to where she stands legally.
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