If I Do A Course And Get A Certificate Issued, Who Is The Legal Owner Of That Certificate?

[RATTER15]

The employer paid for the courses but on leaving will not pass the certificates on.

This doesn't apply to me as I have all mine, but the issue was raised when I changed jobs.

I am under the impression that the person attending the course owns the certificate, not the person paying for it!

[Maydup]

Yes the person who attended the course owns the certificate.

Its often possible to get a replacement. I know it shouldn't be necessary, but it might be easier than fightng the old employer for it. If you have yours maybe you'll find a contact address on it.

[AlwaysConfused]

My company pay for certain courses - CIA, fork lift, first aid, ROSPA etc, who say they will hold on to the certificates if the colleague leaves withing two years of passing the course. Most are in-house courses anyway, so wouldn't be transferable to another company.

[RATTER15]

//CIA, fork lift, first aid, ROSPA etc, who say they will hold on to the certificates if the colleague leaves withing two years of passing the course.// that is the point, can they legally do that, I suppose they can if it is written into the contract maybe.

Like I said, I dont have this problem, it was just a question that was raised.

[boxtops]

This cropped up at work the other day.

If the employer paid and you need it as part of your job, then we decided that the original certificate belongs to the employer (sometimes we need to display them in the workplace) - but if the employee moves on, they get to take them with them.

The contract for the training was between the employer and the trainer, not the employee.

[pixie373]

I think it is the person paying for it, ratter. I wasn't allowed to take any of mine (including DRB) in case I left and used them for another employer.

[DaisyNonna]

May be legal for employer to own the certificate but could be seen as immoral.

[tamborine]

Our employees keep their certs as they earned them, even tho we paid for their courses. The certs are addressed to employees directly. If needed, we take photo copies.

[RATTER15]

Pixie, do you mean DBS/CRB, I think they can only hold them for a maximum of 6 months, they then need permission from the DBS to hold them any longer, I was just reading about it on my new one.

[boxtops]

How immoral, daisy? In our case, the employer pays for it as it's a requirement of the job. We need to be able to show the certificate to the inspection authorities.

[woofgang]

Two comments. One is that the employer might need to prove that they had certificated staff at a previous time, for instance if legal proceedings were taken against them. The second is that if they have got high staff throughput, it might be quite annoying to train staff and pay for the training then have that member of staff leave and take not just their training but the proof of it, elsewhere. Holding onto the certificates makes that transfer a bit harder!

[boxtops]

Not only legal proceedings, woof - for organisations who have CQC inspections (for example) the employer has to be able to show the certificates to the inspectors

[woofgang]

I agree Boxy, I was thinking of the bit about holding onto certs after the employee had left.

[tamborine]

Ours are on annual contract but its unwise to keep unhappy staff....they might snip off an ear ;)

[excelsior-1]

when i was made redundant last august, i came away with both my forklift refresher certificates, and my computer course certificate. all of which were on the company time and money.

[pixie373]

Yes, I did, ratter. That may have changed with them. It's been a while now since I needed to apply for one. I have never been handed any work certificate or given any out. They were kept in the staff files at ours.

[DaisyNonna]

Regardless of who paid, who did the work, took the test and now has the expertise? It seems that the employer could photocopy the certificate if needed to prove that the employee was properly trained. To withhold it when an employee accepts another post seems like sour grapes. How does the employee prove to new employers that he/she has the skills or knowledge required?

[pixie373]

I think that's why they do it, daisy. So they aren't paying for courses that benefit another employer. We were told- the Home owns them-because they paid for them. That home was a big place and very by -the-book, but I can't guarantee the legal position myself.

[boxtops]

I see what you mean, daisy - yes, we recommend giving the certificate to the employee when/if they leave. There is no point in hanging on to a certificate for someone who no longer works there.

[pixie373]

There might be when it's a legal requirement and an inspection. You have to keep the paperwork for 7 years.

[woofgang]

I don't think there is a legal position apart from applying the same terms and conditions to all employees. most employment (and other) law lays out general principles. Disputes that go to court establish precedent which can then be argued in subsequent cases