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Motoring Legal Questions - Drls And Private Plates...
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Hi Legal Beagles, I am after some legally accurate answers to the following before I approach a barrister and hand over my hard earned dough...
a) If a miss-spaced 'Private plate' displayed on a vehicle would fail an MOT, that means the car is un-roadworthy and thus uninsured, am I correct?
Hypothetically, if i am hit by a car with a miss-spaced private plate, could I claim that they are not insured and sue them privately?
b) Some new Daytime Running Lamps (DRLs) switch on/off automatically when indicating or turning the steering wheel (make/model dependent). How do these lights satisfy The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 Regulation 13 that demands a "steady light".
Just stirring up the mire....
a) If a miss-spaced 'Private plate' displayed on a vehicle would fail an MOT, that means the car is un-roadworthy and thus uninsured, am I correct?
Hypothetically, if i am hit by a car with a miss-spaced private plate, could I claim that they are not insured and sue them privately?
b) Some new Daytime Running Lamps (DRLs) switch on/off automatically when indicating or turning the steering wheel (make/model dependent). How do these lights satisfy The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 Regulation 13 that demands a "steady light".
Just stirring up the mire....
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Ryzen .. why the "oh dear" every time she gets stopped it always ends in a laugh about how the plate reads ..
She often gets dreamers pulling up alongside and asking to buy the plate. Not to mention serious plate dealers offering more money than she paid for it.
.. and as for "some people have too much money" ..
Why the issue with that ? Should someone put the effort in, and be very successful in creating wealth.
Jealousy is the first thing that springs to mind.
Unlike some who hang around on forums all day, I have got wealth to create ... I'm off to work now !
She often gets dreamers pulling up alongside and asking to buy the plate. Not to mention serious plate dealers offering more money than she paid for it.
.. and as for "some people have too much money" ..
Why the issue with that ? Should someone put the effort in, and be very successful in creating wealth.
Jealousy is the first thing that springs to mind.
Unlike some who hang around on forums all day, I have got wealth to create ... I'm off to work now !
Meanwhile, back to your question.
I think most of your points have been addressed and in particular the insurance issue has been well explained by ‘Chico. But I’ll add my two pennyworth.
Of course your assumption (Illegal spacing on plate = no MoT/unroadworthy = no insurance) is completely incorrect because:
• An MoT lasts a year and it only relates to the condition of the vehicle at the time it was tested. If the condition of the vehicle changes during the certificate’s currency it does not invalidate the MoT.
• It is a considerable stretch to suggest that a mis-spaced plate renders the vehicle “unroadworthy”.
• A lack of MoT and/or unroadworthiness does not invalidate the Third Party insurance required by law (as explained by 'Chico).
So that’s the plate issue dealt with. Now the lights. All new car models have to undergo “type approval” by the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA). This ensures that it complies with the various Construction & Use regulations (some of which you’ve quoted) and other legislation (such as emissions). I would imagine that somebody in the VCA would have by now highlighted the fact that some DRLs of the type you describe do not comply with those regulations. Since it seems they have not I would say with some confidence that they do, in fact, comply. As a brief comment I think the section you cite is designed to ensure that vehicles do not display flashing lights of any sort. DRLs which extinguish when, say, an indicator is switched on can hardly be construed as a flashing light.
I don’t quite know what the basis of all this is. You say you are “just stirring up the mire”. But you see to be going to an awful lot of trouble to do so, especially as you say you are consulting a barrister. I might hazard a guess that you have been involved in an accident with a vehicle with an illegally spaced number plate and DRLs (or your vehicle has these features). In any event I believe you are wrong with both your assumptions.
Finally, I don’t really understand this:
“…if i am hit by a car with a miss-spaced private plate, could I claim that they are not insured and sue them privately?”
Why would you want to claim they are uninsured? Firstly, it is not a matter for you to determine anyway and you have no basis to make such a claim. But surely it’s in your interests to do nothing that might jeopardise their cover. It must be simpler to have your damage dealt with by their insurers rather than sue them. Unless, that is, you really are “just stirring up [their] mire”.
I think most of your points have been addressed and in particular the insurance issue has been well explained by ‘Chico. But I’ll add my two pennyworth.
Of course your assumption (Illegal spacing on plate = no MoT/unroadworthy = no insurance) is completely incorrect because:
• An MoT lasts a year and it only relates to the condition of the vehicle at the time it was tested. If the condition of the vehicle changes during the certificate’s currency it does not invalidate the MoT.
• It is a considerable stretch to suggest that a mis-spaced plate renders the vehicle “unroadworthy”.
• A lack of MoT and/or unroadworthiness does not invalidate the Third Party insurance required by law (as explained by 'Chico).
So that’s the plate issue dealt with. Now the lights. All new car models have to undergo “type approval” by the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA). This ensures that it complies with the various Construction & Use regulations (some of which you’ve quoted) and other legislation (such as emissions). I would imagine that somebody in the VCA would have by now highlighted the fact that some DRLs of the type you describe do not comply with those regulations. Since it seems they have not I would say with some confidence that they do, in fact, comply. As a brief comment I think the section you cite is designed to ensure that vehicles do not display flashing lights of any sort. DRLs which extinguish when, say, an indicator is switched on can hardly be construed as a flashing light.
I don’t quite know what the basis of all this is. You say you are “just stirring up the mire”. But you see to be going to an awful lot of trouble to do so, especially as you say you are consulting a barrister. I might hazard a guess that you have been involved in an accident with a vehicle with an illegally spaced number plate and DRLs (or your vehicle has these features). In any event I believe you are wrong with both your assumptions.
Finally, I don’t really understand this:
“…if i am hit by a car with a miss-spaced private plate, could I claim that they are not insured and sue them privately?”
Why would you want to claim they are uninsured? Firstly, it is not a matter for you to determine anyway and you have no basis to make such a claim. But surely it’s in your interests to do nothing that might jeopardise their cover. It must be simpler to have your damage dealt with by their insurers rather than sue them. Unless, that is, you really are “just stirring up [their] mire”.
Thank you NJ, I knew you would come up with the goods. I'll let the private plate issue lie as I believe I am flogging a dead horse, they just really get up my nose, what is the point of rules and Regulations if some people just ignore them? Might as well drive around with bald tyres and blacked out windows... oh, wait people do.
I will consult my Barrister on the DRL issue though as I recently sat by a roundabout and corner combination for 2 hours and noted that some DRLs went off/on/off/on as the car manoeuvred, this I am sure is not a 'steady light' as required by the Regulation as stated. I believe it will be for a court to decide where these lights are between 'flashing' and 'steady'.
Someone has to keep the standards up, maybe I am alone in this endeavour.
I will consult my Barrister on the DRL issue though as I recently sat by a roundabout and corner combination for 2 hours and noted that some DRLs went off/on/off/on as the car manoeuvred, this I am sure is not a 'steady light' as required by the Regulation as stated. I believe it will be for a court to decide where these lights are between 'flashing' and 'steady'.
Someone has to keep the standards up, maybe I am alone in this endeavour.
IP,
Regarding "keeping the standards up" you are not alone - Standards bodies such as SAE are beavering away constantly at all these things and the relevant one for DRL's is SAE J2087, the latest iteration of which is only a couple of weeks old, so who knows, your problem may have been fixed before you get to court....
Regarding "keeping the standards up" you are not alone - Standards bodies such as SAE are beavering away constantly at all these things and the relevant one for DRL's is SAE J2087, the latest iteration of which is only a couple of weeks old, so who knows, your problem may have been fixed before you get to court....
I assume you have several tens of thousands £s to throw away then! Barristers do not come cheap, £250 an hour was quoted as a minimum rate when someone asked a while back. Yet you are willing to spend that on a theoretical case about car lights? Do you expect to get your money back if you win the case?
I'm wondering now what exactly you intend to do if you do hire a Barrister? Are you intending to sue the car manufacturers for supplying defective vehicles ? Or are you going to take the Department of transport to court ? I don't see what you as a private individual could do. I expect a Barrister to either laugh or tell you that you don't have a hope in hell.
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