Private Parking Prosecution

[MaxyMillion]

Hi .. Parked in a private car park in the winter of 2016 at around 22.30. The entrance sign only stated a daily rate of £4.50 so I assumed there was no charge for the night. There were signs inside the car park stating it was 24 hours but I didn't really clock these as I was already under the assumption there was no charge. The company have now issued court proceedings, but have failed to produce any ANPR camera evidence or the contract with the landowner, despite this being requested in my court defence application. Where do I stand? Thank you

[goodgoalie]

This might help:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

[fiction-factory]

It's not clear to we why you "... assumed there was no charge for the night" and on what basis you were "already under the assumption there was no charge"
goodgoalie's link may save ou having to explain that but the attitides of teh courts have changed so you may have more luck relying on the lack of ANPR and contract evidence

[bednobs]

i don't understand why you need those things - you already know and have admitted that you did it, so why do you need proof? you also know there were signs saying that the car park operated 24 hours a day. They clearly have proof it was you, otherwise they would not have been able to chase you to court. Therefore it follows that they have both of the things you have requested, despite no producing them yet. What is the basis of your defence going to be?

[fiction-factory]

There may be a loophole if the first sign about being 24 hours was inside the car park rather than outside but I'm not sure that will get you anywhere as the entrance sign did refer to a daily rate- so you should have expected to pay at least £4.50 (and maybe more if you stayed beyond midnight). Did you pay anything?
What sort of private car park was it- an NCP type?

[ToraToraTora]

It's rare for these to go to court so I'd take bednobs advice and pay up now, it can only escalate. The private parking tickets are not fines they are invoices and as such can be pursued through the courts like any other debts, Usually they are not but if they are actually proceeding then pay up. Do you actually have a court date or are they merely saying they are going to proceed with court action? You can check with the court if they have actually filed a small claims case.

[HansUrbancka]

I would be interested to know what amount the Car Park Operators are seeking to recover in their Court action. Also what is deemed to be a Daily Rate......Is it a daytime rate which is from Sunrise to Sunset ?

I think if I had been parking in the area concerned, I may have assumed, rightly or wrongly, that there was Not a charge during hours of darkness.

Hans.

[Buenchico]

In a civil court neither side has to prove their case 'beyond reasonable doubt' (as the prosecution needs to do in a criminal court). Everything is based upon 'the balance of probabilities'. If the judge is convinced that ('on the balance of probabilities')
(a) you parked on the car park ;
(b) the parking company had a right to charge for parking there ;
(c) there were clearly displayed signs outlining the charges ; and
(c) those charges weren't 'wholly disproportionate' ;
then the parking company will win their case. Everything else is entirely irrelevant.

[meglet]

A ‘daily rate’ doesn’t mean during hours of daylight it means per day. Did you think it’s night time so it’s free??

[MaxyMillion]

Thank you all for your replies .. the government are planning to crack down on some of these parking companies who charge extortionate 'invoices' so they have recognised a problem. A parking company has to be a member of the BPA or the IPA .. if not they have no legal right to obtain your details. The entrance sign, legally .. is very important. They also have to have a contract with the landowner.

[Jackdaw33]

I'm sorry, but I think that assuming that the term 'daily rate' does not apply to night time is naive in the extreme.

[fiction-factory]

Let us know how you get on, Maxy.

[Peter Pedant]

//.Is it a daytime rate which is from Sunrise to Sunset ? //

Jackie has put his thumb on it - day has two meanings in linguistics - but golly I wouldnt try this on in a court - the judge will just look at you

day and in daily rate means 24 h
and yes free parking all day - doesnt mean a rate to be paid at night.

You are trying to put a legal nuance on day as in "day and night" and day as in 24h
honestly is this Form 3B at St Marks primary
or the law column ?

day coming from dies - Latin means daylight hours
but day coming in from Monday - Mondag etc is the whole lot ( yeah I know that came also from dies BUT the hjourney was longer)

[ well anyway that as what s/o doing English Swedish and Old |Norse linguistics said]

[MaxyMillion]

In response to some of the sarcastic comments regarding my interpretation of daily rate .. here is an extract from investopedia.com. A day rate is the price/cost of a particular service for an entire workday. In some markets, it is referred to as 'per diem' (a cost that an organisation will pay for one days' work and often translates to a 7.5 hour work day. To everyone else who provided helpful and constructive comments and advice .. thank you. I will let you know the outcome.

[fiction-factory]

I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of fish though, maxy, other than it's another example of daily rate meaning for the day not just during daylight hours- which seems to contradict what you were arguing earlier

[Zacs-Master]

2016!? Really?

[andypipwilly]

Fighting one since March last year. Go via Martin Lewis money there is a site there. Follow instructions to the letter. Is it P Eye? They are renowned. Copy and paste letters, they obfuscate right left and centre. Bullies. Citizens Advice will also help.

[MaxyMillion]

Thanks Andypipwilly .. very helpful. Hi Fiction Factory .. just trying to demonstrate that the interpretation of daily is within the confines of a normal working day. Anyway .. I will let you know the outcome.

[goodgoalie]

Maxy, I gave you a link to the Martin Lewis site, complete with template letters etc, on 5th March!

[fiction-factory]

I think has passed the stage of using the parking company's appeals procedure or writing stating you refuse to pay using the Martin Lewis letter, as this has already started to go through the Court process.

[THECORBYLOON]

If you were telt to take take two tablets, four times daily, would you take them only in daylight?