Parking Not Within A Bay

[fiction-factory]

In an NCP or other private car park, if you get a PCN (say £50) for not parking within the marked bay, are they expecting you to pay that in addition the parking fee that you did pay (say £10) if you complied with the time conditions?

[retrocop]

I would imagine it is two separate conditions of the contract you enter for parking there.
Pay for your time parked OK
Pay for not parking within bays as prescribed a PCN
I assume if I paid at a pay and display for £10 worth of parking and then parked in a disabled bay without a Blue badge then I get a ticket without a discount for parking fee paid.
That is my guess.

[Buenchico]

I'd want to read the small print to check but I'd assume that the penalty charge was in addition to whatever you've already paid.

The logic for that is that you've paid the £10 (or whatever) to occupy one bay but you've effectively occupied the adjacent one as well (preventing someone else from parking there and NCP from gaining revenue from it) and so, in effect, you've 'parked' in the adjacent bay without payment for it.

[EDDIE51]

Yes, the extra charge is a PENALTY (Fine) . PCN = Penalty Charge Notice.

[fiction-factory]

Thanks. I'm just not sure whether the £50 figure can be justified in terms of the loss to the car park company unless they can show that it meant

[fiction-factory]

Not sure why it submitted mid-sentence.

...unless thay could show that it meant that 5 cars couldn't park so they lost £50 income. I could understand £10 surcharge but not £50.

Sometimes the way others have parked means you have no option but to park ouside the lines. Or are you expected to leave the car park without parking (and without paying) if no spaces completely within bays are available

[retrocop]

Most private car parking have notices with their rules clearly displayed.
Vehicles not parked properly within a bay will incur a penalty
Vehicles without a Blue Badge in a Disabled Bay will incur a penalty
etc etc. If those rules are not displayed then contest it. If they are then pay the PCN.

[fiction-factory]

Okay, thanks retrocop. So once you have driven in, and circled the car park for 10 minutes, if the only space involves parking outside the lines I assume you would you still have to pay to drive out if the exit barrier requires a paid for ticket?

[Buenchico]

Given that the highest court in the land has ruled that £85 is not an unreasonable charge to have to pay for parking when you've not paid for your car to be there, your argument that you should only pay (say) the tenner that NCP would have lost through a space being made unavailable would seem to be unlikely to carry much weight in a court of law:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-34721126

[fiction-factory]

Yes, that seemed an odd case, Buenchico. If they felt £85 was reasonable for an extra hour it would have helped if they had indicated what an unreasonable figure would be- £150 an hour? £200 per overstay? £500?

[fiction-factory]

At the time, given that my friend needed to park for an appointment he'd have been 'happy' to pay £20 for two spaces if the option had been available. It's hard to think when you are under time pressure but if it was clear that he could leave without paying because no single spaces were available and look for another car park he might have done that.

[Peter Pedant]

if it POPLA then dispute it
on the grounds it is disproportionate
I won on that
and if it prevented another parking then the charge should be double your fee

see other columns on appealing
dont bother to write to the company
do write to the appeals committee
label your letter to the right committee
dont assume narfin etc etc

[Peter Pedant]

yes no
if the highest court in the land etc
then distinguish it by saying he had an intention to pay by reason of his ticket receipt and he would have paid for two tickets blah blah blah

I was astounded that the appeals panel took points on proportionality but they do - so if you are gonna go for it -
go for it!

[fiction-factory]

Thanks PP nd others. Will pass this on and see what he wants to do. I think the charge goes up from £50 (may actually be £60 now i think about it) to something like £100 if he doesn't pay within 10 days so it's a gamble he may not want to take even though he feels he has a case for paying only for two spaces- ie £20 not £50/£100. if it were my PCN I'd appeal it but it's easy to say that when it's not me getting the sleepless nights

[Peter Pedant]

it all depends and you have the opinions

if any one is screwed going around Chethams School and getting fined then appeal as there has been a slew of successful appeals saying it ( no private transport ) is not clearly advertised. Yeah did that myself and paid up and only found out a few weeks ago.....

[douglas9401]

'Say' it's not you but accept the charge anyway, pay up and stop bleating.

[Peter Pedant]

no - appeal !
dont let the B+++s grind you down