Christmas2 mins ago
Joint Accounts.
I have a current a/c & also a joint a/c with another person. On my death, do the monies in the joint a/c form part of my estate?
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was that answer - yes
as in yes it forms part of your estate
the leading case which I never tire of saying is
in re Northall
Mrs Northall put £62 000 in a joint account with son and wehn she died he said "mine all mine!"
and the tax judges not surprisingly said - o come on be serious
it is the persons who put it in
( altho as above anyone named can access) as in
https:/
where hooray an ABer says I am talking crap
or
and here
https:/
or here
https:/
where I clearly state the moolah is part of the estate for IHT purposes
and it all boils down to Northall
and that is explained here
https:/
as in yes it forms part of your estate
the leading case which I never tire of saying is
in re Northall
Mrs Northall put £62 000 in a joint account with son and wehn she died he said "mine all mine!"
and the tax judges not surprisingly said - o come on be serious
it is the persons who put it in
( altho as above anyone named can access) as in
https:/
where hooray an ABer says I am talking crap
or
and here
https:/
or here
https:/
where I clearly state the moolah is part of the estate for IHT purposes
and it all boils down to Northall
and that is explained here
https:/
In case you're getting lost here, Sire, the general rule is that money held in a joint account automatically passes to the sole survivor upon the death of the other account holder. That occurs 'outside' of any will that the deceased person may have left. (i.e. it goes to the surviving account holder before the will comes into play and therefore can't be left to anyone else, irrespective of what might have been written in the will).
However, as Peter P points out, there are circumstances where a court may rule that the general rule should not be allowed to apply:
https:/
With regard to Inheritance Tax though, half of the money (in most cases) in a joint account counts forms part of a deceased person's estate unless the account holders were spouses or civil partners. In certain circumstances though it's possible that all of the money in a joint account might count towards any liability for Inheritance Tax:
https:/
However, as Peter P points out, there are circumstances where a court may rule that the general rule should not be allowed to apply:
https:/
With regard to Inheritance Tax though, half of the money (in most cases) in a joint account counts forms part of a deceased person's estate unless the account holders were spouses or civil partners. In certain circumstances though it's possible that all of the money in a joint account might count towards any liability for Inheritance Tax:
https:/
from Chris ref
If the money came entirely from your grandmother, then HMRC could consider the entire value of her account to be part of her estate, thus making it liable for inheritance tax.
really seems to settle it
BUT chris article is worf a read for all of us
and please pay attention to the banner at the head of these threads
'Please pay bear in mind that the people contributing here may really be full of crap and you need to pay a tax lawyer for proper advice. Do not mistake posts as proper or even remotely correct legal advice' - - or something to that effect
If the money came entirely from your grandmother, then HMRC could consider the entire value of her account to be part of her estate, thus making it liable for inheritance tax.
really seems to settle it
BUT chris article is worf a read for all of us
and please pay attention to the banner at the head of these threads
'Please pay bear in mind that the people contributing here may really be full of crap and you need to pay a tax lawyer for proper advice. Do not mistake posts as proper or even remotely correct legal advice' - - or something to that effect
Peter Peter kissy kissy you must prove presumption of advancement.
If Sire and his cohort have been crediting the account together, then its up to HMRC to prove presumption of advancement. If Sire has sold his house with room for a pony and placed the moolah in a joint account with his son, to perhaps circumnavigate Inheritance Tax, then yes HMRC will come a calling. If Sires son is adding funds to the account regularly from his wages then that's a different scenario.
If Sire and his cohort have been crediting the account together, then its up to HMRC to prove presumption of advancement. If Sire has sold his house with room for a pony and placed the moolah in a joint account with his son, to perhaps circumnavigate Inheritance Tax, then yes HMRC will come a calling. If Sires son is adding funds to the account regularly from his wages then that's a different scenario.
thank you
joint accounts and advancement is here
https:/
and the leading case is
(Bingham v HMRC [2013] UKFTT 110 (TC)).
which I will go and have a read of
joint accounts and advancement is here
https:/
and the leading case is
(Bingham v HMRC [2013] UKFTT 110 (TC)).
which I will go and have a read of
erm - - it is an income tax case
https:/
I wondered why it wasnt in the discussions on Northall .....
https:/
I wondered why it wasnt in the discussions on Northall .....
and Jesus as a tax case = get it wrong and go to appeal and this happens
"The hearing of this appeal occupied some 3½ days. 5 full ring binders of pleadings and evidence were presented in substantially agreed bundles. 2 further full ring binders of legal citations were also placed before the tribunal."
more moolah for the loolas ( er lawyers that is)
"The hearing of this appeal occupied some 3½ days. 5 full ring binders of pleadings and evidence were presented in substantially agreed bundles. 2 further full ring binders of legal citations were also placed before the tribunal."
more moolah for the loolas ( er lawyers that is)
It might help us to know WHY the question is important to you, Sire.
For example, if you've not only got a son but a daughter, and you want them both to end up with equal amounts after you've passed away, then a will which simply states "I leave my estate in equal shares to my son and my daughter" will be flawed because your son will actually end up with more money. (i.e. he'd get your half of what's in the joint account plus half of your house but your daughter would only get half of the house). That's because, as far as your will is concerned, what you've got in the joint account does NOT form part of your estate.
However as far as HMRC is concerned, a half (usually) of the money in the joint account DOES form part of your estate when calculating how much Inheritance Tax (if any) is due.
So there's no simple 'Yes' or 'No' answer to your question. The answer depends upon why you're asking it.
For example, if you've not only got a son but a daughter, and you want them both to end up with equal amounts after you've passed away, then a will which simply states "I leave my estate in equal shares to my son and my daughter" will be flawed because your son will actually end up with more money. (i.e. he'd get your half of what's in the joint account plus half of your house but your daughter would only get half of the house). That's because, as far as your will is concerned, what you've got in the joint account does NOT form part of your estate.
However as far as HMRC is concerned, a half (usually) of the money in the joint account DOES form part of your estate when calculating how much Inheritance Tax (if any) is due.
So there's no simple 'Yes' or 'No' answer to your question. The answer depends upon why you're asking it.
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