Neighbour Dispute

[paddyk]

Hi all. This is a theoretical situation but I'm hoping someone could settle a friendly dispute with a work colleague on this. Suppose you are a homeowner but sometimes you enjoy playing play loud music on your hi-fi. Your neighbour in the adjoining house asks you to turn it down, but you refuse because you think the volume level is acceptable. Some time later the police arrive and inform you that your neighbour has called them because they feel you are making excessive noise playing your CD'S.. My view is this: the police can ask you to turn the music down but you have the right to refuse and say the level is not that high as long as you are civil to them and not abusive etc. This is because I believe it is a Civil Matter not a criminal one and the neighbour would have to gather evidence (record noise levels etc) before they could proceed. My friend disagrees and says that if the police ask you to reduce the noise level and you refuse, they have the right to arrest you for Breach of the Peace. Or if you do turn it down, but then turn it up again when they leave, they may arrest you if they return. I don't agree and think it is highly unlikely because apart from being a civil matter, it can be quite subjective on what constitutes loud music. I would appreciate people's opinions and also real life experiences on this.

[jno]

it may be a matter for the council

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/noise-nuisances-how-councils-deal-with-complaints

[Buenchico]

'Breach of the peace' applies only to unlawful violence to people or property:
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/breach-of-the-peace/

See 'What can the police do about noise complaints?' here:
http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=76

[Electrochem]

We have had neighbours in the past, who have played music at very high levels. We haven't been able to watch the television or listen to the radio thanks to them. Noise is one of the biggest disputes between neighbours and I think it's is unreasonable and a total disregard for others when people think it's acceptable to play loud music. Just as bad are those who drive round with their car windows down with music blaring out. It all comes down to consideration for others. I think more needs to be done about noise nuisance.

[paddyk]

Chris. This is very interesting about "Breach of the Peace" because it states that the Breach of the peace must be imminent & that the arrest can be unlawful if there is no evidence when the police arrive that there a breach of the peace has taken place. I was once arrested for "breach of the peace" because I had been shouting & swearing in my driveway. However, by the time the police arrived I was totally calm and reasonable - however they still arrested me. I felt at the time that this was wrong & they did let later me go "no charge" but I still believe it was completely over the top - these documentaries like "police interceptors" show the officers being so reasonable and putting up with loads of abuse - I honestly believe that it's just because they're on camera. My experiences in the "real world" & also those of people I know have been completely at odds with this

[Buenchico]

>>> & they did let later me go "no charge"

Well that's certainly no surprise, as you CAN'T be charged with 'breach of the peace' unless you're in Scotland. It's NOT a criminal offence anywhere else in the UK!
https://greenandblackcross.org/guides/laws/4-breach-of-the-peace/

[paddyk]

Chris. Apart from my side-track about "Breach of The Peace", your post seems to confirm what I thought, what constitutes excessive noise can be a very subjective thing. It seems to be a bit of a "grey area" - and your post seems to confirm it is a civil matter. However, I do have a true story about this. My neighbour (who is a very nice chap) has a next door neighbour with mental health issues who likes to play very loud rock music at 3.00 am in the morning. As i say, because my neighbour is a placid person, he just bangs on the wall a bit and tells us all in the morning about next door's behaviour. not sure what the outcome would be if he did get the police, because the guy next door has well-documented mental health/alcohol issues

[paddyk]

jno. thanks for the info - but it does show that this is can be a very difficult issue to prove. It's Ok to claim that your neighbour is making excessive noise but the burden of proof seems to be on the Complainer. Take the case of the guy on my street with the next door neighbour playing loud rock music at 3.00 in the morning. If he records it - how does he prove it was 3.00 in the morning ? How does he prove that it was from next door and he hasn't made the noise himself and recorded it - there are so many uncertainties

[calmck]

The local council should supply the complainant with equipment. I called at 11.30 one night and held the phone so they could hear. My complaint was upheld

[Peter Pedant]

// My experiences in the "real world" & also those of people I know have been completely at odds with this//

is this hypothetical or wha'?

I think some of the correspondents have had actual you know experience and can tell you....
Noise
you go around during the day later
More noise
there comes a time when you go around when they are doing it. Lesbians are good at this ( I did tell you I had experience)

One got the police: we are not sure how she got the police to go into a notorious slum and not just sit on their butts and say "yeah luv, OK" and put the phone down whilst they crack jokes at the manor about sluts of Newton Heath. Later - certainly not at the time

Then at some time the council will Make a Visit and advise

I chipped in at this point and wrote a standard letter: "I am not sure what this is all about".

THEN the council supply listening equipment and record - they advise you to keep a diary and record

It used to criminal 70s and now is civil and we cdnt understand how the police pitched up last year. - "if I go round he may flash at me" God knows. Neighbours say anything

screamer had complained at one point their alarm clock ( you know ding ding some people work where I live: not many) was too loud.

what was the hypothetical question ( life is too interesting for hypothesis) ? it the police ccall and you only speak French to them and your wife Polish, will they gas you or set off a limited tactical nuclear explosion? not sure about that one

Breach of the peace isnt a charge in england but it does allow the police to arrest.

[ToraToraTora]

fire with fire done it, game over, assholes, next....

[Peter Pedant]

// but the burden of proof seems to be on the Complainer.//
yes.... as one of the principles of English Law

( seems to get er bent in sex cases where the accused is kinda invited to refute...)

and no I dont think it IS subjective - hence the recording equipment.

[Peter Pedant]

clearly there are some who go for self help more than others

I quite liked the tactical nuclear weapon - sort of contemporary. I am sure that someone somewhere has been stabbed with a pitchfork for playing his tooba too loud

[Peter Pedant]

// because the guy next door has well-documented mental health/alcohol issues//

oh missed that bit

you just have to put up with it - if he says, oh yes I will comply with the law and be a good boy
then he doesnt have mental health issues

I claim my pint

[ToraToraTora]

I give you the solution but my answer is removed? Perlease!

[paddyk]

TTT. not sure why your answer was removed - I never "report" individual's posts. I enjoy a bit of loud music myself (probably why I now have to wear hearing aids at the age of 60 !)My personal solution if my neighbours were constantly playing loud music at 3.00 am would be to wait until they had gone to sleep in the morning, place my speakers against their bedroom walls and whack the volume up - never fails

[ToraToraTora]

yep that's what you do paddy. They they come round and moan so you both agree to ***! sorted!

[ToraToraTora]

gawd help us *** = Shut the ferc oop.

[davebro]

I had a noisy neighbour for a couple of years & it was a pain. I mainly resorted to earplugs.
Living in a flat I have a neighbour below (the noisy one) and another to one side so to "retaliate" would have upset the neighbour who wasn't a problem. Thankfully she upped sticks & moved in with a bloke (and good luck to him!).
ps. If things become "official" you are supposed to report neighbour problems to potential buyers if/when you come to sell.

[tiggerblue10]

My noisy neighbour was prosecuted by the council for noise nuisance. It wasn't just me contacting environmental health, it was the neighbour on the other side of her and others too who were affected by it around the neighbourhood. It was that bad that my house vibrated with heavy drum and bass. I was given recording equipment which was triggered off in the early hours. She had equipment seized a few times but that didn't stop her as she got new equipment and carried on. This went on for nearly a year.

Despite the prosecution she carried on but the noise level was lower than before so more bearable. It finally stopped and she moved away but her actions left me with mental health issues.

I was away one Christmas and when I returned I found out from my other neighbour that she had been arrested for being in possession of drugs and firearms! I'm glad I no longer live in that neighbourhood.