Mum Going Into Home

[Cjamil23]

Hi, just wanted to ask if my mum needed to go into a home, would her own property be taken from her to fund the home? If her property was to be changed over into her daughter's name would this prevent this from happening?

[Gizmonster]

Have a read here:

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-care/

 

As for signing the house over to her daughter, it's knows as "deprivation of assets" and the council will act as if she still had it.

Have a read here:

https://www.independentage.org/get-advice/health-and-care/paying-for-care/giving-away-assets-to-pay-for-care#:~:text=Deprivation%20of%20assets%20means%20you,that%20is%20out%20of%20character

[Gizmonster]

Typo fix:

"it's knows as" .... should read "it's known as"   :)

[barry1010]

Alternatively, the question is should tax payers pay for Mrs Smith to be cared for in a nursing home so that her children can benefit from her assets?

 

[Barmaid]

Further details are required such as ownership of the home, who else lives there, value of other assets, whether NHS funding is available etc.

 

Transfers to family gratuitously are looked at very carefully by the local LA. Generally it doesnt work, but depends on individual circumstances. 

The house is not just "taken" and a deferred payment arrangement must be offered in certain circumstances.

 

[dave50]

What would happen if she gave all her money to her daughter and she spent it all and had nothing left?

[newmodarmy]

That's normally treated as deliberate/gratuitous disposal of assets too, dave50. If she couldn't pay they'd set up a deferred payment system from future house sale.

[Old_Geezer]

Alternatively, Barry, as a past tax payer should she have to use her own assets for something that is an issue to those in the community and arguably should be covered by the public fund that the individual concerned had contributed to during their lifetime. We don't demand folk are left to sort themselves out for comparible services such as the NHS, or the dole, security from invasion, etc ...

[ladybirder]

Aren't you allowed to keep a percentage of it or talk of that happening?  £20k perhaps?

[roopower]

I expect this is covered in the links. My mum had to go into care in the early 2000s, due to severe osteo arthritis. We were extremely lucky as she needed work done on the chimney and couldn't afford it, her neighbour was an accountant and told her to make the house over to my sister and me so we paid the bills. Roll on eight years and mum finally goes into care but because the house hadn't been hers for over seven years we were allowed to keep it. I have to say that my sister and I didn't know about the seven year rule. Mum's house wasn't worth a lot and wouldn't have paid her fees for long anyway. 

[THECORBYLOON]

ROO, there's a, "seven-year rule" relating to gifts and whether they are included as part of the estate for inheritance tax purposes but not for deprivation of capital.

 

Also, with the deprivation of capital legislation, assets can be given away and the recipient can keep them or do what they want with them but the donor can be treated as having them still.

[Peter Pedant]

yeah signing over her home to her daughter - wont work.

I am not sure if she signs it over and the daughter charges a market rent. ( that gets over the IHT retention of benefit rule).

as Barmaid - of course, mwah mwah

depending on who is  left in the house, forced sale MAY be deferred but I am not sure if the end-date is death of the owner in care, or the occupier

( very long for dont know really)

[Peter Pedant]

Oh I think roo 'got away' with - it is obviously NOT deprivation of assets as he had to maintain it immediately - and transfer was due to unable to maintain

good acct - keep him !

[bednobs]

"Alternatively, Barry, as a past tax payer should she have to use her own assets for something that is an issue to those in the community and arguably should be covered by the public fund"¬

alternatively though, why should the public fund pay for someone's living arrangements if they have enough money to pay for them themselves ... i am a tax payer and dont expect my living arrangements to come out of the public fund - that's more like a commune.  It's not like the OPs mum will need her house if she is residing elsewhere

[Old_Geezer]

Because it's a care expense that inevitably has to include accommodation, not an accommodation expense that has care as a secondary side issue.

[rowanwitch]

If it had been done with the aim of avoiding fees it would be illegal.  Better to seek the advice of a solicitor who specialises in trusts to see how best to protect at least a percentage of her property.   She will be liable to pay fees up to the capped amount I think it's £85,000 but dont quote me on that.

[rowanwitch]

They take all but £29 p.w.  of mum's pension and pension credit towards her care, but the healthcare component is fully funded.   It is always worth trying to get the healthcare component funded where possible as this is not means tested.  

[Countrylover]

Rowan, the £85k that was approved hasn't happened.  I heard or read that recently.  I think it's been abandoned

[Countrylover]

I was wrong.  It's been delayed

 

The UK government has announced that from October 2025 (this was originally due to come into effect in 2023 but has been delayed), no one in England will have to pay more than £86,000 in care costs during their lifetime. Once you have reached the cap, the ongoing care costs will be paid for by your local authority.26 Oct 2023

[Barmaid]

It's not actually illegal, Rowan - but the LA can challenge ANY disposition (irrelevant as to when it happened) if there is a gratuitous transfer.  s70 Care Act 2014 covers this.  Consulting a trust lawyer will probably not help since a transfer into trust is still a deprivation.  (I get asked similar questions about 3 times a month).

All of these cases are highly fact sensitive and the OP would be best advised to take advice from a specialist in elder people's law/CHC funding.  There are all sorts of issues to consider and it is not always the case that a transfer will be considered deprivation.  OP needs to seek specialist advice.

 

[Peter Pedant]

thanks Barmaid