Community Unpaid Work And Sick Notes

[Livinglam]

Hi there,

In short - if you are experiencing long term medical issues that effect your ability to carry out manual labour unpaid work (community order) is it illegal to still work a desk job? I have needed a sick note to excuse me from Community Payback for a while I'm unable to do manual labour, but I've been attending my desk job still. Solicitor says this is perfectly fine because of the difference in types of work. Probation worker claims it's fraud and that he needs to get further legal advice!!? Please help me understand - I genuinely didn't think I was doing anything wrong and I'm so worried. I am still having ongoing medical appointments etc. I can answer a phone and input data, but I can't do gardening, lifting and all the things that community payback entails in my experience. I've completed 150/200 hours of my order. 

[New Judge]

The only option available to the probation service (who supervise community orders) is to have your matter brought back to court under "breach" proceedings. It will then be for the court to decide the issue.

[Livinglam]

Thank you New Judge - based on what you've read above and your experience, does that appear to be fraud?? 

[THECORBYLOON]

I don't know what the legal position is regarding the scheme you are on but I can comment regarding different employments whilst unfit for work.

 

I used to work on the Incapacity Benefit section at the DWP and I can assure you that unless there is an odd contractual clause, you can be unfit for one job but fine for the other.

 

That would most often be because the jobs are not similar but even if they were similar, one employer might be able to make reasonable adjustments, allowing you to work whilst the other employer wasn't and you could receive sick pay from that employer.

[Livinglam]

Hi THECORBY - Thank you. Something that both I and my Solicitor found very peculiar, was that the probation worker has never actually suggested a lighter placement, not even once in the months of sick notes - infact, I actually took myself to a charity shop, explained my circumstances and the duties I could carry out and they still were willing to take me on subject to probations agreement, the probation worker actually denied me due to lack of progress... Bare in mind I've completed 3/4 of the order. It just confused me as all, as I'm certain it's likely in everyone's best interest I get this completed asap.

[New Judge]

"...does that appear to be fraud??"

No it doesn't. Fraud involves deceit or trickery to gain an advantage (usually financial). You are operating no deceit. What you are doing is honest and is open to examination.

Although not quite the same thing, Corby's comparison is very valid. You can be capable of doing some jobs but not others. The only issue for the probation service is whether or not you are fit to perform the work they have set you as part of your community order. What else you do is nothing to do with them (though they may use evidence of the work you are undertaking to support their claim that you can do the work they set you).

[Livinglam]

Hi New Judge, thank you for being so informative. It's really appreciated. Am I right in thinking then - at most this could be considered a breach? Even if some reason they decided my desk job was the equivalent of a placement? The reason I ask is because for them to suggest a Fraud offence is far more serious. 

[New Judge]

"Am I right in thinking then - at most this could be considered a breach? "

That's all that should concern the probation service. If they have set you unpaid work which you either cannot or will not do, it is up to them to take you to court for a breach. The court can then decide whether you are guilty of that breach or not. What else you do is nothing whatsoever to do with them (unless your community order makes it so).

Even if some reason they decided my desk job was the equivalent of a placement?

But from your description of events, it isn't. 

[THECORBYLOON]

It might be an idea to make your doctor aware of the issue you're having.

 

Whether you mention the community order of just say an employer is giving you grief, is up to you.

 

Ask the doctor to confirm you are unfit for (heavy/strenuous) manual work but you are fit for sedentary work.

 

At least that way you are offering an alternative to the work you cannot do.

If your Probation Officer doesn't think it reasonable, I don't know if the decision whether to refer it to a court is made at that level or by a  Decision Maker.

I cannot see why a fit note would not be accepted in those circumstances.