Is the law an ass?

[lonedad]

Ok, so i ask this because ive read through many peoples questions, many peoples answers and also things ive read about or seen on TV. Even my own experience with the law.
I look at offences and the punishment of offences and think its so ridicolous. I mean, a person lies on his CV, forgets to put insurance on his car, drives when over the limit, speeds etc etc can get their liberty taken from them but a person can go out and assault, burgal, cause arson, can get away with a suspended sentance or just a fine. There seems no justice at all. I remember going to court a few years back with a mate who was about to be convicted of drink driving. He got in his car the afternoon after a night out. He was pulled over because he had no seat belt on. He was breath tested and was arrested. This lad was in the Armed Forces and was having a great career. Before he went into court we sat and watched another case where the accused was being tried for a mugging which left an old lady badly hurt. This lad, who pleaded not guilty was about 22 wearing a tracksuit and having a massive attitude problem, got off with an asbo and community service. He even laughed when he was given the sentance. My mate then went up, got banned from driving for 1 year and got a �300 fine. He was then negativley discharged from the armed forces and could not find work. He went from having a promising shining career serving this country to a bloke just scraping through in life. My mate still finds life hard. Although this was a few years back, he has a criminal record and the endoresment on his licence. The licence will remain marked for 10 or 11 years after the offence. Do the courts not think of this when sentancing? Do the people who come up with sentancing not think of this? Theres other people who get marked for life because of sentancing who made unimformed decisions or just bad decisions who are now and most likely always will be affected by it.

[lonedad]

I mean, someone lies on their CV, or from a post i just read, a man hard on his luck and just trying to scrape by didnt own up to a conviction on his licence so he could get a job. They end up being hit with the full force of the law. At least these people are trying to make something of their lives. Yes, some people intentionally go out their way to deceive and lie their way through life, but surely the courts have the experience to sift through the good and the bad. I think these days theres a blame culture. The public seem to bay for blood once someone does something wrong. But theres an old saying "the one who has not sinned, cast the first stone" (well something along them lines). People are too quick to judge people. Ive even read someone say that all people who dont pay insurance or lie to their insurance companies should be hanged!!! Why?? Because theyre just as fed up of you having to pay stupid high rates to put their cars on the road. Some people have no choice but to put a car on the roads, but people hit hard times. The worlds full of ifs buts and maybes. My mate is too ashamed to tell people about his drink drive conviction because when he did, he was ridiculed as scum. People assume that if youve done it once then you must have a drink problem and will do it again.
Im not condoning breaking the law, but I will say that sometimes people do it because there seems like no other way. People make decisions that are not always right. They aren't calculated or planned, theyre just bad decisions. Does this really deserve being locked up or having your life messed up because of this one decision?

[lonedad]

Obviously Im not talking about the very serious crimes of murder, rape, child abuse etc. Im talking about lesser crimes which seem to be blown out of proportion like motoring offences, lying on a CV, not having council tax, not having a tv licence etc. People just dont have any tolerance. Not everyone is law abiding and I would put alot on the line and say that everyone, at least once, has broken a law in their lives. That law you broke, if you were caught, do think your life should be ruined because of it?

[bednobs]

what a load of utter utter tosh.
Some people "have to" put cars on the road without insurance do they?. poor them, having a gun put to their head and all that! And personally i think that someone who is done for drinking and driving deserves a jail sentance, not just a small fine and their liscence taken away. When i frst started reading your post, i thught you were advocating stronger sentencing, but it seems it's too harsh if it's your mate, but too lenient if its someone in a tracksuit who you don't know! What a hypocrite!

[lonedad]

I dont think it is tosh. My example of my mate and the mugger was simple. My mate made a bad uncalculated decision to get into his car. He ended up losing a shining career because of this and now has hit rock bottom. The mugger seemed to have made a career of crime. From what we heard in the court, he had a criminal record as long as his arm and had no remorse for what had happened. There is a stark difference. Why does drink driving deserve automatic imprisonment? No one was hurt, the only car about was the police car. Ifs, buts and maybes cant be brought into question.

[lonedad]

Some people do need their cars. Take the people who work early hours in the morning. No public transport to take them there. Those who need cars because they are looking after someone disabled who cant get about easily. Sometimes people are forced to make a decision which they wouldnt usually take. Life isnt perfect and people get desperate.
I guess im a very tolerant person.

[caz247]

what do you mean some people have no choice about putting a car on the road, there are thousands of folk out there who cannot afford a car at all.
how has your mate hit rock bottom exactly, is he
destitute or homeless

[lonedad]

Caz, I just posted an answer about the car question. I must have done it as you were posting your answer.
Yes, my mate looks like hes about to lose his home. He cant get a job. The only training hes had in the armed forces is security and driving. All of these wont let him work. It got him so depressed that sometimes he cant face the world. Something that happened about 5 years ago is still messing his life up now. Just doesnt seem fair.

[bednobs]

so not having readily available public transport is a good excuse not to get your car insured is it? What a crap argument!
and its great your friend didnt kill someone, but he could have because he was a drunk driver, with not even the sense to wear his own seatbelt!
If he had knocked over and killed a loved one of yours, i' sure you wouldn't be thinking like this. does a drink driving conviction prevent you doing other work then?

[bednobs]

yes, i agree that people make bad decisions, but if their bad decisions put other peple at risk, (ie the decision to drink and drive, the decision to drive an unroadworthy car because you "Can't afford" an mot) then they should be punished, as a deterrent not to make bad decisions any more

[caz247]

obviously i don't know the full story but i don't
understand why this would make him lose his house
if he is on benefit then surely he is getting help with
mortgage or rent

[lonedad]

If, buts and maybes. No one has killed, no accident happened. You cant convict someone on if, buts and maybes. Everyone would get locked up!!
It can stop you from working if the only work you are qualified to do was driving. He didnt even know he was over the limit. He was only just over it

[bednobs]

and just cause you cant work in driving or security, whats up with other jobs?.

What would you like to have happened to your friend? - the police to have said, never mind, you made a bad decision, but thats ok, we wont take you to court? That really would have made the law an ass

[lonedad]

Caz, the landlord wont take DSS. It was in the ad for the flat. The council have said theres nothing he can do.
Bednobs - But do people deserve to lose their liberty because of making a bad decision?

[bednobs]

yes, yes totally agree with your logic there, people should be allowed to drive drunk, just as long as they don't cause an accident eh?

[bednobs]

And in answer to your question - a wholehearted YES! There are millions of drivers in this country who WOULDN'T make the bad decision to drink and drive, so those who are selfish and stupid enough to do so should be punished, not let off!

[lonedad]

Bednobs, you dont understand what i was saying. In the case of my friend, he did not know he was unfit to drive. He thought he was fine. He took a course about drink driving after he was sentanced and he found out stuff that I didnt know and even a police officer friend of mine didnt know. Im not saying that he shouldnt have been banned, he accpets that himself but why is he too be punished for so long? 11 years is along time to have to live with this. I know drink driving is serious but the punishment dont seem to match up with other non driving offences. To me, the ban wasnt the only punishment. Losing his livlihood, his respect and his self esteem have gone with this. I beleive educating folk is a far better deterrent than this. What if he turned to a life of crime because of this?

[bednobs]

so what did you want to happen to him? If you agree he should be banned, then surely all the other things that have happened to him have been outside of the law/nothing to do with the law, ie getting fired from his job - this is the army's decision, not the laws. being branded scum by other people is also nthing to do with the law - it's just how people feel. Even if his license was "clean" sooner than 10 years, then when he applied for a job they would ask him if he had had any criminal cnvictions and he would be bound to say yes.
i really really cant see why having this on you liscence for 10 years stops you from getting jobs?
As far as i can see, your main gripe in reference to your friend is that you dont mind he got banned, you are just upset it stays on his driving liscence?

[lonedad]

Well yes, my main gripe is that it stays on his licence for so long. I mean, 11 years!! What other crime, other than a road offence, would you have that? There arent many companies that ive gone to as a HGV driver that ask for you to declare that you have a criminal record but they always want to see your licence. So lets say for arguments sake, I had a DR10 on my licence and Mr. Biggs who had 2 counts of GBH, 1 count of theft and 1 count of fraud on his criminal record applied for the same job. Mr. Biggs would get the job ahead of me because I have a DR10 on my licence. Does that make me more of a risk of drink driving again? Of course it dont so why would I face predujice? (sorry, my spelling and grammar is awful). This is my main gripe. My friend served his punishment, he paid his fine, he did his course, he learnt alot from that course and he certainly will never ever do that again. In the end, he is better informed and better educated about alcohol, its effects and how it can impair driving than many of us.
As for the reasons that hes found it tough to find work, well, many people these days want experienced staff. His only experience is in driving and security, both of which wont touch him. Stacking shelves or cleaning toilets dont exactly pay well. Now he is clinically depressed because of this, he isnt fit to work anymore

[evedawn]

What a can of worms you've opened up ay lonedad:-)

Well I must say that there are many, many people (and yes, I sadly admit to being one of them!) that have driven the day AFTER a heavy night out. Most people will happily enough get a cab home from the pub but still drive to work he following morning. I reckon if they set up a stop and test on any motorway at 7am on a monday morning rush hour the number of people who thought they were safe but weren't would be staggering.

reckon he needed to be punished (he did break the law after all) BUT....all the circusmtances should've been taken into account ...sometimes the courts are doolally!

[bednobs]

you're right, it dosent pay well, but neither do benefits, do they? You say this happened a few years ago - are you meaning to say your friend has found it more agreeable to be on job seekers allowance for years than get off his arse, stop feeling sorry for himself and get trained in another career? No wonder he is depressed if he's been lounging around on benefits for a few years. he needs to get some self respect, because surely it's better to get any job than just be kept by the state?.

i dont know your freind or you, but to me it just seems like you are trying to justify drunk driving, and your friend seems to using his situation as an excuse