Section 5 Public order act

[jakey01]

I am a middle aged male with no record whatever I recently after trying and failing to speak to them on the phone wrote a letter regarding a substantiate amount of wages that were outstanding to my daughter I hand the letter to my daughter's ex employer and asked her if she wanted to discuss in private or in front of customers and staff, the owner of the business began laughing and trying to talk over me as she had to my daughter and wife on every previous attempt that had been made to discuss. Her actions resulted in an exchange of words in which no threats were issued by me. Incredibly my action resulted in me being arrested under what I now know to be section 5, I had to undertake the degrading and disgusting treatment that accompanies an arrest whilst the true perpertrator goes free. I have elected to vigarously defend myself although I have no experience of such things I only know that I am totally innocent. The person making the acusations has apparently done this sort of thing on more than one previous occasion she has had statements made to the police by 2 of her staff and a customer who happens to work for the police ! All of which are perjurous but of course only I, my wife and daughter know this. During my investigations for my defence I have turned up evidence which undeniably suggests that this woman and at least one of her staff have made false statements to the police previously and committed fraud. Can I mention this in court ? I also commenced a complaint about the police and it's my firm belief that the prosecution witness statements have been led by the police as appently if I am convicted I can complain about the police Can I also use this as part of my defence ? What can I expect at the trial

[sara3]

I honestly think you may trip up in court, as that is what the prosecutor is there for. get some legal advice. are you entitled to Legal Aid? otherwise there will be a duty solicitor when you get to court (although on busy days you may have to wait.. and wait.. ), and there is no cost for his/her advice.

I suggest you contact the court in advance to talk this through, but think very carefully before opting to have no legal rep in court.

[Barmaid]

I would take legal advice. If it is the case that this person has made false allegations in the past, there will be a record, but you will need to seek disclosure. Although a defence case statement is not required in Mags Courts, I would suggest one be done in order to trigger the second level of disclosure that the CPS are obliged to do. You will then need to make a bad character application if you are successful in discovering that such false statements exist.

Unfortunately, the duty solicitor will not be available to you since s5 is non imprisonable, so your only hope is to pay for a solicitor to advise.

There will probably be a couple of hearings before the trial is set. At trial, the Pros will open the case and then call his evidence. After each witness has given evidence in chief, you can then cross examine. Once the prosecution have completed their case, then it is your turn to give evidence (and be cross examined). YOu can also call your own witnesses.

[jakey01]

Thanks to you both. I cannot get legal aid due to my earnings, how can I trip up sara3 I don't intend to tell any lies or am I being naive? there are 2 other witnesses who where in a much better position to see & hear everything but amazingly the police have not produced statements from them. I know the whereabouts of one of them but he works for the same employer so may not be willing to speak up for me. The other was a customer who would of witnessed everything within 3 feet of me but I don't know who they were. Is there anyway I can find them? When I go to court for the first time what will happen ? will I be asked to outline my case ? will I be able to make a statement at that point, if so do I state exactly what case I intend to make or do I keep them guessing. Regarding the false statements this person has previously made to the police as far as I am aware she got away with it, although I have been told by someone independent that this did happen would I be allowed to use a statement by the person to substantiate my claim or even suppoena them, a serious fraud was commited by using these false statements.

[sara3]

in my experience (which evidently doesn't cover this subject specifically), under cross examination you can be made to look like you're unsure of the facts, and they only need to muddle you on one point and it could throw everything you've said into doubt.

also, a legal rep will know the right questions to ask in your defence.. and you really won't, unless you have experience in this area.. or are very well advised and confident.

[jakey01]

Thanks again,Barmaid I am in court in the morning, will they allow me to read out a statement within which will be a reference to the information I have discovered re these false allegations?
If so will they then have to look into the matter ?
Also since last writing I have discovered a further 3 people to whom this employer has done the same as she did to my daughter. I have all the names concerned. Would that be enough to make a bad character application tomorrow ?

[sara3]

I don't know enough to give you spot on answers but I can tell you this. signed statements and witnesses in court would have a much bigger impact than reading a list of names.. which would not be evidence, only "hearsay" evidence. if you honestly think you can secure statements and/or witnesses, you should ask for an adjournment but it's going to be up to you to get that evidence.

anything you say will be considered in court but I don't think anyone will look further into your allegations. they are not there to investigate on your behalf.

I think you are proving my point that you really don't have the knowledge and experience to be handling this yourself. tread carefully...

[jakey01]

Thanks Sara3, I'm under the impression that tomorrow will only be a preliminary hearing as I was only charged 11 days ago so have had very little time to prepare much.
However it is quickly becoming very evident that the person involved has made many enemies and is indeed a very unsavory character I feel quite confident that some if not all will assist. If not I can subpoena them can I not ?

[jen78]

People acting on their own behalves are very much encouraged these days but only if matters are simple and straightforward.

I would honestly recommend getting proper legal advice and representation.

I'd hate to see you get lost and confused in the court process, what is going on, who does what when, what you can and can't say, being corrected or stopped or similar, and don't end up being able to make the best case that you can.

As Sara said, lists of people's names, heresay about others things which have been said and done are not good enough - you need proper evidence and witness statements.

[jakey01]

Thanks to all, I'll let you know how I've gone on