smoking in works vehicle

[bluetoon]

hi on friday morn .my employer locked the main gate and told us he was having all the vehicles checked for evidence of smoke in the cab.all were checked while we stayed inside the depot. and called out one by one when vehickles had been checked to go back to work.one of my mates had an empty cigarette packet on the dashboard of his vehicle.and they said he would have to pay a fine of �30 for alleged smoking in vehicle.surely they must have proof of smoke in the cab before they fine you. can anyone confirm that they can legally do this.

[EmEd1984]

i agree, surely they'd have to be caught in the act? daft question, but does the van smell of smoke, or is there any ash anywhere? otherwise i don't think they'd have a leg to stand on. everything i can find online also says 'caught' not 'suspected'. Also, does the vehicle ONLY belong to your colleague? if so, the rule doesn't apply to him; "the regulations state that a vehicle shall be smoke-free if it is used for work by more than one person - regardless of whether they are in the vehicle at the same time."

http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/what-do-i-do /business.html

[bluetoon]

hi emed
thats what i thought. he has also told me he has a disaplinary meeting with hr on mon over this. if he .isnt sacked he said that they will hold the information on his file for 12 months it seems very unfair to me.

[brenda]

I believe the employer is on dodgy ground here.

They must prove that the packet is his and even then it may not have been used for cigarettes by him.It could even have contained sweets or loose change for phone calls etc.

Is your friend in a union----if so approach them for help.

Ring ACAS as well for advice.

Get your friend to take another colleague , or a friend to the interview if he can, to hear what is being said.

Get him to remind his boss that to deduct money from his wages without the necessary proof is an illegal act , and if they do this he will be forced to take legal action.

He could say as well that he intends to make an appointment with a CAB solicitor.

Tell your friend not to accept any reprimand , or warning which may be given in the interview.

And finally tell the boss that he must put in writing the steps he intend s to take over the matter

(.*This is so that he is quite clear and has some info to use should he decide to take further advice.)
(*)-----for your friend only.

Maybe that the boss wants rid of him , in which case he will have to be very careful in the future

Tell him Good luck and let us know how he gets on if you can.

Finally at the interview tell him to stay calm and not to lose it.

[bluetoon]

thanks brenda
i will print a copy of all replies given and give them to him.i will let you know what happens .thanks for your responce

[ccfluff]

Continuing from Brendas advice, i would also ask for a copy of his employment contract, if it does not state that a fine is payable then theres nothing your employer can do. Anyway, it would be upto the police to issue a fixed penalty notice, all the employer should do is go through their statutory disaplinary proceedure. the only time they can request money is if damage has been caused.

[Twenty20]

I think he would need to explain why there was a cigarette packet in the vehicle if he wasnt smoking.

I dont think they'd need forensic type evidence in a case like this, it would be based on the balance of probability and with a cigarette packet and, possibly, the smell of cigarette smoke too they'd be within their rights to warn him.

My guess is that he would get an oral or written warning regarding this, which would stay on his file......unless of course he had a great excuse for cigarette packets in the vehicle.

[ojread2]

Oh come on, a cigarette packet used to keep sweets in? Perrlease! I find it hard to think it would be used for change as well.

I'm with twenty, probability is it is his packet, so a written or verbal warning must ensue

[brenda]

It was only an example for goodness sake, who knows what could be kept in a cigarette packet on a dashboard by a driver , if indeed it belonged to him.!!!

[terambulan]

petty employer who's looking for excuse to rid employee......resign - your friends not wanted!

[gelda]

He might have got out of the vehicle for a smoke and got back in then put the fag packet on the dashboard, who's to prove that wasn't the case, it doesn't mean to say he was smoking in the vehicle.

[redcrx]

so he has an empty fag packet in his truck and therefore hes been smoking in the truck?

i hope i never get stopped by the police on my way to the bottle bank then!

[Ethel]

My guess is a member of the public has phoned the employer and seeing somebody smoking in the company vehicle.

It happens.

[EmEd1984]

surely that would'nt be enough of a reason either though? it'd have to be the police that saw them as it's them that enforces the law, not the member of the public 'dobbing' them into the employer. who's to say it isn't a personal vendetta?

the whole thing reeks, the more and more i think about it the more i think the employers trying it on, maybe trying to set an example. he's obviously got a bee in his bonnet about something!

[pink-kittens]

not a very good example really. Sweets in a cig packet? Bleurgh!
I think though, that this may make it clear to him and other employees that the employer wont tolerate smoking in vehicles and why should they? Getting into the vehicle of a smoker is not a pleasant experience, and even worse if you have to drive it all day.
Maybe it is someone who has reported him?

[pink-kittens]

Morning red you alchy ;p

[brenda]

O.K not a good example I agree, so a couple of spliffs then!

[stormin85]

So there was a cigarette packet on the dashboard, so what,
I was called into a disciplinary meeting for the same thing, and I do not smoke in the vehicle, if I am driving and want a ciggy I just pull over get out of my van and have a smoke, rain, snow or sunshine, I just put the empty packet on the dash to remind me to put it in the rubbish bin when I get back to the depot, only when my vehicle was checked in a jobsworth saw it on the dash put 1 and 1 together and got 11, when I explained why it was on the dash nothing was done about it at the disciplinary as there was no proof of actual smoking, as for smell in the cab that is not proof, if a smoker sits in a vehicle long enough, the smell off his clothes will linger in the cab.

[brenda]

I think there are plenty of those about, they really need to get a life.
The spliffs were for when he finished work.I reckon he deserves them working for the company he does.