Planning for a pub beer garden

[midgie]

Hi all, can a pub tenant decide to open a beer garden with live events right next door to your house and garden with planning consent?

[midgie]

Oops .. that's without planning application/consent

[ChuckFickens]

Hi midge,

can't answer your question other than to say if they do they have to stay within any licensing terms regarding hours and those conditions may include separate clauses regarding use of the outside areas.

(how long have you lived there BTW?)

[midgie]

Hi ChuckFickens, My mother has lived there 50+ years, my house is next door. They applied for a live music license in early May - my only objection was if it was outdoors and the Licensing authority said that there was no mention and that the Environment Agency would not support it if it was, due to nuisance. It's a quiet corner of our village.

[Androcles]

Hi Midge,

You should get in touch with your local Licensing Authority and ask to see a copy of the current licence for the premises. This should give you a series of pieces of date related to Licensing hours and for what activities the licence has been granted for, which may be live music, recorded music, dancing and other activities and the specific hours for each. Usually they also include a condition which means that what they do must have the approval of the environmental department.

The best bet is to ring up the local authority and ask to be put through to licensing. Another useful tip is that often your local police will have their own licensing officer who keeps an eye on applications from a police point of view and the person doing the job can be a useful ally.

Here are the guidelines for our local authority - I suspect yours will have soething similar: http://www.southbucks...3_a_simple_guide.aspx

Hope this helps!

[midgie]

Thanks Androcles, some very useful information there. I will follow up. I am in touch with the Licensing Authority who told me there had been no mention of outdoor events. Today, I received a flyer that the pub is holding a bbq, bouncy castle for kids, on bank holiday, in the new beer garden. Mid June is a live football event on giant screen with surround sound with a bbq and live entertainment after the match in the beer garden. I think the best course is now the Environment Agency and the Health and Safety Executive. As far as I can see on our Council's web, there is no Planning, no License for this and presumably no insurance.

[Androcles]

Hi Midgie,

Make sure that they send you a copy of the actual licence - you are entitled to ask for one. When they said there is "no mention of one", that is not the same as having permission to do it. You really do need to see exactly what they have permission to do.

You should also identify your local councillors and also identify exactly which of them sit on the Licensing Committee. Contact them ans express your concerns that this may be being done outside the licensing conditions and ask them to clarify for you. If you want to be really difficult contact your local papers, they love nothing more than a potential row brewing up and will start ringing up the councillors and asking them for quotes, which soon concentrates the mind.

Be persistent - you have to be more persistent than they are!

Very often the environmental people will have stuck a condition on that if they have given permission for outside broadcasting that the sound level is below so many decibels at the perimeter of the property - if they haven't ask them what they regard as the acceptable level and can they check what it is in reality.

Good luck!



A good ploy is to contact your local paper and tell them that the neighbours are very concerned

[Androcles]

Sorry Midgie

Ignore the last sentence - I inserted something and fogot I had already typed that!

[midgie]

Thank you Androcles for all the pointers and good advice. I have been in touch with all the authorities you suggested. The license for live music was turned down already by the Environmental Health! There is no Planning for the beer garden and there should have been! I have a feeling the events will go ahead but at least we tried. Thanks so much for your help.

[janna]

Hi Midgie

We have a very similar problem. For 20 years the pub next door to us did not use their garden, but over the last 2 years they have constructed a permanent marquee which now has a large screen TV and have succeeded in turning it into a very noisy venue, including occasional live music. We are in touch with licensing, but I am interested in the idea that they may also be in breach of planning laws. Is this a line that's worth following? Any advice welcome.

[midgie]

Hi Janna, sorry to hear that. I was informed by our local Council that a beer garden required Planning permission and that none had been sought or granted. This is a separate issue from the license but all the same, is a line I'm pursuing. The pub has never in its history had a beer garden. Of course, they can always apply for retrospective planning. I've also been informed that the live music license has been refused by the Environmental Health dept., who are very hot on noise pollution and nuisance. The new tenant's first introduction to my family was last week and contained a threat of violence and an act of violence from him, so the gloves are off (through legal means from my point of course).

[janna]

Hi
Thanks for helpful answers. I think we are following the same avenues in terms of trying to sort out our rights, Midgie - but I'm glad to say that for us it is without the same element of violence that you are dealing with.

I understand the licencing laws and I suspect that our neighbouring pub isn't breaching them substantially, but it does feel very depressing that our ability to use our own garden peacefully has been completely spoiled and we don't seem to have much hope of stopping them. We will follow up on the planning route both for permission to use the garden and to erect a permanent marquee, but I'm not holding my breath.......Grrrrr

[midgie]

Good Luck Janna. I would like to think you might have some sympathetic local councilors? It strikes me that it can't be right that anyone can move into a pub in a hitherto quiet area with residential properties all around and create what's basically an outdoor music venue. I'm not a killjoy and respect people's right to make a living, but not at the cost of others' quality of life.

[Guillaume77]

Good luck Janina..We have a similar problem but local council dont seem bothered even although the beer garden has no planning permission