Martyr Or Suicide - Emily Davison

[chrissa1]

I have just watched the Channel 4 programme by Claire Balding. I was always told that she didn't intend to bring down the King's horse at the Derby in 1913 and that it was just bad luck/luck that this horse hit her, causing her death.

The footage of the event was forensically enhanced, and it seemed to be clear that she intended to drape a Suffragette scarf around the King's horses neck, so that it would cross the finish line bearing the scarf.

It is well worth watching the programme. Very interesting.

[jim360]

When I was about 14 we were asked this question for History homework. Unfortunately I answered the question rather than the actual point of the homework, which I believe was meant to be about evaluating the sources. I was only interested in her return ticket, so assumed she'd intended to go back home afterwards!

I'm told that such tickets were occasionally cheaper at the time... so if I get the chance I may look at the program.

[chrissa1]

The ticket was explained Jim. As the Derby was such a huge event at that time, train tickets were probably only sold as Returns from London to The Derby, for the one day.

[chrissa1]

Thus, it wasn't martyrdom.

[Canary42]

Surely in this case Martyr and Suicide are mutually inclusive ?

[Canary42]

... so if it wasn't martydom, it wasn't suicide either, but accidental death.

[Canary42]

OK, I'll get my coat..................

[Maydup]

It was a very interesting programme indeed and very well presented by Claire Balding. I don't think Emily realised the power of the horses when she jumoed out to throw the scarf over the Kings horse. She just wanted it to be carried over the finish line, but it cost her jer life.

[chrissa1]

Well, it was neither Canary.

[Maydup]

^^^^ cost her her life.

[jim360]

Yes, that's what I was thinking, that I had missed a trick when I looked at the question earlier. Mind, wouldn't the fact that she had to buy a return ticket anyway provide a bit less weight to alternatives to suicide?

From what I remember about the video she was trying to reach up to the horse, to grab it or to drape a flag or scarf.

[chrissa1]

Exactly, Maidup.

[chrissa1]

Sorry. Maydup.

[DaisyNonna]

Surely dying for a cause (intentionally) is sucide.
Verdict has to be suicide or accidental death.

[Canary42]

The whole history of the Suffragette movement makes interesting reading (or watching).

I remember seeing a play at the National Theatre some years ago on the subject, during which the Derby incident was referred to. An unfortunate rift formed in the Movement between the "keep it nice" proponents and the "riot and damage" proponents, which split of course was actively exploited by the opponents ("Divide and Conquer").

The force feeding of hunger strikers was of course another appalling activity indulged in by the misogynistic Establishment.

It is debateable whether the ultimate winning of female franchise was a result of the Movement's activities, or the outcome of the Great War which of course saw many women proving their worth in place of the men being slaughtered in their millions on Flanders Fields. IMO it must have been a combination of both.

[chrissa1]

She didn't "throw herself" under the horse though .

[FredPuli43]

Yes, Canary , women getting the vote was a lot to do with the Great War but the suffragettes had demonstrated such fervour before it that, come the time,the argument was very strongly reinforced. Otherwise the government of the day could have gone the old sweet way. It couldn't face more militancy and by then the public begun to accept the pre-war argument that women had, and could handle, responsibility.

Note that, essentially, only women of 30 or more could vote. This seems to have been to bring equality of numbers in an election, since, by 1918, men below 30 were far less numerous than normal. Women only got equality in 1928, which was the very year that Mrs Pankhurst died, I think.

By the way, FredPuli bid and paid for the scarf, now in the Houses of Parliament, at auction, but is used to being left out of the narrative; well, I did eventually treat it as a gift to my now ex. What rankles is I'm still waiting for the knighthood she said she'd fix. LOL

[chrissa1]

FredPauli. Your last paragraph has me completely flummoxed.

The scarf was put up for auction by an old lady whose father worked at the Course and was one of the people who rushed across the course to help Emily Davison. He picked up the scarf and put it in his pocket.

When it came up for auction years later, the lady who bought it, had outbid The Jockey Club for it, therefore proving its authenticity. She then donated it to the House of Commons.

Another very interesting fact in the programme was, that on the night of the 1911 Census, she sneaked into the Houses of Parliament and hid in a tiny room all night. Thus, the 1911 Census has her place of residence on that night as being the Houses of Parliament!!!

A clever lady.

[jno]

It is debateable whether the ultimate winning of female franchise was a result of the Movement's activities, or the outcome of the Great War

That's what I was taught at school, canary, but I wonder if it isn't a bit of retrospective face-saving by the establishment. My dears, of COURSE we would have given you the vote after you behaved so jolly decently during the war, it was NOTHING to do with those wicked, self-serving, ugly suffragettes!

The truth is the UK was lagging embarrassingly far behind. New Zealand women had had the vote more than 30 years earlier. Burma, USA, Germany, Trinidad... all had female suffrage before the UK did.

[chrissa1]

Nice one, Jno.

[FredPuli43]

chrissa, why flummoxed by my last paragraph ? The lady who bought the scarf at auction, the lady who spoke of its history at the end of the programme, Barbara Gorna (her professional name), is my former wife. I was married to her at the time of the auction and,indeed, for years after. I was the person who found it was up for auction, bid for it successfully, without her knowing any of this, and, of course, paid for it. When we decided to give it; I think technically it's seen as loaned; to the House I was the person who had to sign it over as owner. It's been a running joke between the two of us that she always gets the glory. The suffragette movement had always been a particular interest of hers and I'm quite happy with that.(But I'm still waiting for the knighthood for my services !LOL)