Road tax enforcement

[denisegordon]

A while ago there was a publicity campaign telling us that the DVLA had new computer sytems and that if you hadn't taxed your car they only had to look up on the computer and issue a fine.  This morning on the radio there was publicity that in the Edinburgh area the police will be out in testing vehicles which photograph the cars to catch those that have not got road tax.  If the DVLA threat of fines is genuine how come the police still have to manually catch people?  Who's lying to us?

[Grunty]

It may be that using the vehicle unlicensed (as distinct from merely owning it) is a higher category of offence.

In any case, the police will be interested in unlicensed vehicles because there is a possibility that they will also be uninsured, unmaintained etc.

[Loosehead]

Yes It's because actually using the vehicle on the road is more serious than not having tax but not haveing a SORN either. There is also the insurance issue mentioned above.

[jake-the-peg]

Er if you've declared SORN you don't need road tax so it isn't serious at all! Maybe you meant that!

There is also a new system that automatically tracks car movements via their number plates it's been in a number of petrol stations for some time. If the Police want to find a car and have a plate they can get an alert when the system picks up the car - everybody has to fill up.

Scary isn't it?

[Loosehead]

What I'm saying Jake is that if no sorn is declared and you don't drive on the road, all you've done is not declare a sorn, if however the car is seen on the road then that is more serious. The question was originally implying that if the database is accurate then there should be no need for these cameras, ie they can just nick you from cross referencing the data. I was attempting to distinguish between having no sorn and no tax and not driving on the road and having no sorn and no tax and driving on the road. The camera can highlight the latter.

[jake-the-peg]

I thought the penalty for not declaring SORN was the same as driving an untaxed car on the road - isn't that the whole point of SORN?

That's why I don't believe the system described is intended for photographing cars without road tax but rather for locating vehicles of interest to the police.

[Tim Baxter]

S.O.R.N. = Statutory Off Road Notification.  The car must be off the road (any public highway) otherwise you can be done for no road tax.

One has a dilemma, if no road tax and nowhere off-road to put the car you run the risk of being prosecuted for no road tax.  You can't submit a SORN if the vehicle is on the road.

When the road tax lapses it will come to the attention of the computer which will automatically start the procedures for prosecution against the registered keeper.  The only get-out is the SORN but if there's nowhere to go off road.......They've gotcha.

Is it possible that the camera car is gathering evidence that the car is still on the road, maybe being driven by the person who is not the registered keeper?

[pezza.......]

Jake-the-peg The system used by the Police and petrol filling stations are called ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) systems.

The systems installed in filling stations are only linked to recording systems that are used if there is a drive off. 

It is against the law (Data Protection Act 1998) for the owner of a system to give the images away to the Police to help them catch drivers without tax.

The only time these images can be used is for investigations of crime, ie theft, murder etc where the offender may be pictured on the forecourt at a certain time, therefore putting them in an area at this time. If the police seize these images they have to provide receipts and take statements as to the purpose of the seizure to maintain a trail of evidence.

Finally, if the Police tried to get a prosecution based on images from a filling station, the Police and forecourt owner would be in breach of the data protection act and the images wouldnt be admissable in a court.

[pezza.......]

.....and the Police will only get an alert if the system is connected to the Police National Computer database. The forecourt systems arent!

[jake-the-peg]

pezza the Data Protection act has exemptions two of which are: 

(a) the prevention or detection of crime, 
(b) the apprehension or prosecution of offenders, 

I doubt there'd be any problem with admissability under the DPA but that's not the point - the point is location not conviction.  

[jake-the-peg]

"The ANPR system is made up of cameras that send pictures of number plates to a computer. The computer has loaded into it lists of registration numbers that we may be interested in...."

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/hgvpsvoperators/vosaroadsidechecks/automaticnumberplaterecognition.htm