oil

[mcb123]

when will all the oil run out and what will we use as an alternative to petrol when it does?

[jake-the-peg]

Most sensible long term is hydrogen gas obtained from electrolysing water.

Current poblems with this are generating the electricity to generate the hydrogen and safely storing the hydrogen - Hindenberg ring any bells?

[BigB]

There have been rumours for years (first in the 1930's)that someone has invented a way to split Hydrogen and Oxygen from water. This would solve most of the worlds energy problems but also put most of the worlds current energy suppliers out of business overnight. Maybe the energy companies have this ability already but are keeping it under wraps. (conspiracy theory???)

Some rumours say the water is split just before being burnt so negating the need for safe storage of the flammable gas. The by-product of burning hydrogen and oxygen is water so this can be recycled back into the fuel tank giving endless miles per gallon.

[Gef]

Not rumours Big, it was done in the 1800s. Problem is that you need electricity to do it.

[Hard@it]

Apart from petrol, you will have to be able to lubricate all these different machines, turbines etc. which go to make the alternative fuel, how can you do that without oil?

[Toureman]

If the mythical hydrogen gas is the answer to all our energy problems why can it not be used to make the electricity to make hydrogen gas!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jake-the-peg]

Because Toureman you can't "Make" energy.

It takes more energy to split the Hydrogen and Oxygen out of water than you get burning it to produce the water back again.

And I don't buy the "oil companies are sitting on the technology" argument. They'd sell their unborn children for the chance to be the first to the market with this

[BigB]

Sorry Gef, the rumours i am talking about are for easily splitting Water into component parts. Not using electricity which is well known although inefficient way of doing it. The rumour in the 1930's was a guy who used to work for Henry Ford found a substance that if added to water had the desired affect. He presented his findings to Henry Ford who passed them onto an energy company. After 1 year the guy who found the substance disappered off the face of the earth and Henry Ford actually denied even knowing him!!! Not sure how much truth is in it but apparently it was well known this guy worked for Ford and it made the papers for a few months when Ford denied knowing him.

[stanleyman]

The energy will come from the sun as before but instead of using previously stored fuels such as oil we will make fuel as needed from grown crops converted for use in conventional engines, until something better turns up.

[jake-the-peg]

You know BigB that sounds like an attempted fraud.

In order to split hydrogen and Oxygen you need to put in at least the same amount of energy that get from burning them - simple fundamental law of physics.

So if you were to add a substance to water that did this that substance would have to supply the energy and so would be the fuel itself.

I'm sure this is a variation of the myth of perpetual motion

I also have to take issue with stanleymans' confidence in crop based fuels

Road transport in the UK uses nearly 38 Million tonnes of petrol/diesel a year -Oil seed rape produces 3.5 tonnes of biodiesel per hectare.

Thats 10 Million hectares worth of rape - currently there is about 17 Million Hectares of farmland in the UK that's not arable that's total

This is the only long term solution to supplying the volume of energy that we are used to using:

www.iter.org

[stanleyman]

Jake your figures suggest we could be self sufficient in fuel which has a saving in its self just like making and buying locally. Unnecessary travelling and transporting long distances is a major waste of fuel. I know some people who commute 250 miles per day by car, madness!

[jake-the-peg]

Oh I agree but I'm assuming that as we're the only nation in Europe with a growing population we are not going to be politically capable of reducing our fuel consumption.

Call me a cynic if you like :c)

[stanleyman]

Jake you are a cynic!