What is the middle lane for on the motorway?

[paulco]

Why Oh Why do so many people stay in the middle lane on motor ways after over taking and nothing else is on the road. They dont stay in the outsde lane on dual carrageways so why not pull over into the inside lane on motorways. They evectivley turn the motorway into a dual carrageway rendering thousands of miles of road unusable!!!

[carfurn]

well sounds like remarks i like. as far as i can understand you can use the middle lane if you are: mad, illegal, if your dog has just died, rolling a joint, putting your makeup on, taking it of, using the phone and many more, thank god the police have to stop and prosecute people that sit in the middle lane. well the highwaycode states three places that you can overtake on the left. if the vehicle in front is turning right. on a one way street. in slow moving traffic. good enough for ********* on motorbikes good enough for me. just kidding let the police or highway agencies do there job. in mean time get bull bars fitted

[LeMarchand]

So the problem with "middle lane hogs" isn't so much that they are not sticking to the letter of the Highway Code, but more that they are preventing other road users from breaking the law if I understand you correctly, paulco.

[jake-the-peg]

Well mdoo98 lets see who we believe for our legal advice a website called middlelanemorons or the association of chief police officers?

It's true there is no specific offence but as my link pointed out the CPS will accept this behaviour as supporting a charge of careless driving.

[paulco]

No LeMarchand, My point is that they are obstucting other road users from using the road to its full capacity assisted by thier ignorance and bad road manners. If you drive abroad you find that lane disipline is much better and traffic flows much better, people are not frustrated by being held up behind lane hoggers or rolling road blocks!

[LeMarchand]

So speeding is "using the road to its full capacity"?

[paulco]

Even if your doing 70 mph, if there is nothing to over take you should pull back into the inside lane. I bet you are one of those people who think ' I am doing 70 and I aint pulling over for nobody'

If somebody comes up behind you, you should move over and let them pass. If they are speeding thats not your problem, you are just being a t**s*r and blocking the road and winding every body up. You should be in the left hand lane unless over taking, as simple as that

[LeMarchand]

paulco: So you are admitting that what gets you riled is that people's ability to break the law is being curtailed rather than because any real obstruction is being caused? To folow your phraseology, all drivers should be doing a maximum of 70 mph (on a motorway, unless road signs or conditions dictate a slower speed), "as simple as that".

As I previously stated, drivers should pull back into the inside lane asap. However I suspect that a good many people in the middle lane could be there because they think that they will be unable to overtake the car that is in front of them on the inside lane should they pull in behind as the (illegal) speed of the traffic will prevent them pulling back out of the inside lane - all at a legal speed. Hence they are using the middle lane to overtake. As I said above, I have only seen one person recently who was in the middle lane with absolutely no traffic in front, so I suspect that my hypothesis is likely accurate. On the other hand, the drivers who speed are not making any sort of judgement call, they are simply deciding that they want to make their journey shorter by breaking the law.

[paulco]

LaMarchand:You are missing the point of the question: being that whatever the speed, why dont people pull over after passing a vehicle and there is nothing else to pass. Simple as that. I am not condoning speed (although the speed limits are way out of date for modern cars!) Most people on a dual carrage-way pull straight back in to the left hand lane, so what happens to them when they are an a motorway - can't they count higher than 2! If they are afraid of not being able to get out next time they want to over take then they are not observing the traffic conditions and adjusting their driving accordingly. If I see a car indicating to pull out then I move out to allow him to pull out. Its called good road manners!

[LeMarchand]

Let's break that down (Part 1):

why dont people pull over after passing a vehicle and there is nothing else to pass

My contention, borne out through observation, is that most drivers do just that. What seems to annoy you and many other people is that some drivers don't immediately nip back into the inside lane to get out of the way of a vehicle approaching from behind at an illegal speed. The reason for their extended stay in the middle lane is that they can see that doing otherwise will leave them trapped in the inside lane by those speeding in the middle lane.

I am not condoning speed

But, as I pointed out, a car doing 70 mph in any lane will not be obstructing anyone apart from an on-call emergency vehicle. Therefore, unless you are condoning speed, your whole supposition is flawed.

although the speed limits are way out of date for modern cars

Ah! Also known as the "Clarkson Clause". Unfortunately this pre-supposes that all vehicles on the road are modern cars, properly maintained, and driven by expert drivers with superior reflexes who are concentrating intently on their driving. It also tends to suggest that you do (not so) secretly condone speed.

Most people on a dual carrage-way pull straight back in to the left hand lane, so what happens to them when they are an a motorway - can't they count higher than 2

I suspect that it's that they can count to at least 3. On a dual carriageway, a speeding car on a rear approach will tend to tailgate and/or flash lights/sound horns etc in an attempt to intimidate a driver overtaking slower-moving vehicles whilst maintaining a legal speed. Some drivers no doubt feel that discretion is the better part of valour. On a motorway, I suspect that they feel that a speeding driver is as capable of breaking the law in the outside lane as s/he is in the middle lane.

[LeMarchand]

Let's break that down (Part 2):

If they are afraid of not being able to get out next time they want to over take then they are not observing the traffic conditions

As previously stated, it is because they have observed the traffic conditions that they stay in the middle lane longer than they otherwise would.

adjusting their driving accordingly

Do you mean that they should either be forced to drive slowly in the inside lane to facilitate those who wish to speed in the middle lane, or that they should break the law, because everyone else is?

If I see a car indicating to pull out then I move out to allow him to pull out. Its called good road manners!

For which I applaud you! Alas, such manners are uncommon. Indeed, the fact that many drivers so openly flaunt the speed limits suggests that you may be a rare exception. Plus, those who are exceeding the limit by a moderate amount in the middle lane will often be leery of moving to the outside lane (in the unlikely event of them being as courteous as you) by dint of it being occupied by drivers who seem to believe that the speed limit on a motorway is the fastest that their car/BMW will go.

[ianathuth]

All this talk about people driving just on the speed limit of 70mph presumes that their speedo is reading accurately. By law speedos have to be either accurate or over estimate the speed that you are driving at. Many drivers who think they are doing exactly 70mph and so it is OK for them to sit in the middle lane as only those who are breaking the law would be inconvenienced are actually doing less than 70mph.

[LeMarchand]

"Yes, your honour, I did check my speedometer - however as I believed it to be both innacurate and over-estimating my driving speed I decided to ignore its reading and drive at what I felt to be 70mph instead."

:~/

[paulco]

Lets face it Lamarchand, whatever any one says on this subject you will come back with an answer that,to me at least and I'm sure to others too, that sounds as if you are a perfect and totaly law abiding citizen. An absalute angel of live who has not don any thing wrong in his perfect life!!!!!!!!!!

[LeMarchand]

An angel? Far from it, paulco - I just find the hatred directed on "MLH" drivers (and the flimsy rationales given by those who choose to speed) baffling. Why isn't equal time devoted to such motoring crimes as those people who think that the best way to exit a motorway is to do 90 mph in the outside lane and then, when parallel with the start of the off ramp, to cut across the other two lanes (usually without indicating)? Or those who think that the correct approach and route across a roundabout is whichever lane they think will get them to their exit the fastest, even if it means cutting up other drivers? Or drivers who think that disabled spots are alright to park in if there are no other visible places, or if choosing another place would mean that they had to walk further?

BTW, being able to consistently provide valid rebuttals to an opposing argument is often taken as a sign that the original argument is flawed.

[198x]

LeMarchand I think you're reading too much into this. Please don't break down someones post as it's just rude.

There is no flaw in the question as it happens alot. You claim you have only seen this once and yet other people have seen this as a regular occurence.

Not everyone travels on the motorway at the speed limit, for instance I was stuck behind someone doing 55mph earlier this afternoon but luckily they were in the left hand lane. Now imagine the scenario of this person now doing 55mph in the middle lane, any lorry that is doing their maximum speed of 60mph cannot overtake this car as they cannot enter the right hand lane of the motorway. They cannot either "safetly" undertake as it would be too dangerous so this lorry driver is now stuck behind this middle lane driver.

[paulco]

Lamarchand: I applaud you. I may have mistaken your previous comments as defence for MLH, but I was only trying to make a point about MLH. The other points you mention are all very valid and most probably a lot more dangerous than MLH.( Apart from the parking in disabled bays, thats not dangerous, just dammed annoying) We should all be as well manered and as courteous as possible when on the road, then we would all arrive at our detinations in much better frames of mind.

But you do seem to be in the minority in supplying any sort of defence for these people!

[JudgeJ]

Came into this a bit late, but two points to raise.

1. Whilst not illegal as a specific offence, overtaking on the left is against the advice of the Highway Code:

Para 241 �Overtake only on the right�.

Para 242 �Do not overtake on your left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds [my italics] traffic in left hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right�.

So, mdoo98, you are correct in that this is not a specific offence, but enquiries into any accident caused by such action would take the behaviour of the �undertaker� into account. There is also every possibility that, despite any advice of middlelanemorons.com (many of whose pages are unavailable), you would almost certainly lay yourself open to prosecution for careless or even dangerous driving. This is confirmed by the �official reply� from a Mr John Doyle, contained within that site and I have seen a number of such prosecutions.

2. You can also be prosecuted for careless driving for failing to drive in the lane nearest to the left that is available to you. Again, I have seen some prosecutions for this.

Many driving situations are not specifically covered by an individual law, but can be prosecuted under the careless, inconsiderate or dangerous driving legislation. Common sense, patience and consideration are necessary qualities for all drivers.

[clancyblob]

I would suggest that the mark of a really good driver is his/her ability to keep emotions in check when behind the wheel and keep calm, and do what they know is right, even if stuck behind a 55mph middle lane hogger. Paulco is right that staying too long in middle lane causes a moving tailback, and renders the left lane unuseable. They become a sort of pace car for all but the outside lane. There is a judgement issue though. Moving in and out of lanes is a risky process, having to judge the speed of approaching cars by looking in a mirror is NOT a fine art. So maybe if a middle lane user has another vehicle to overtake in say 30 - 45 seconds they should stay put, make good progress (eg 70-ish in good conditions) and pull in once past. If during this process they see in the mirror that fast drivers are piling up behind them (most of these seem to ignore the 2 second distance rule in my experience) then they should consider moving to the left and slowing a little, and do their overtaking when the faster drivers have gone. PS Car technology has definitely changed to permit much higher speeds, but our brains still seem wired pretty much as they were in the time of the ancient Greeks, so I guess our reactions/emotions and central nervous system should be the factor that sets the speed limit, not the technology!