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smoking in pubs
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i m a non smoker and hubby is a smoker and i feel that there should be pubs you can smoke in and pubs that you cant.i think the only way to see the difference in not allowing smoking is to boycott pubs and clubs and just see if landlords etc will notice the difference financially.i think a total ban is silly
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one last question before I withdraw from this thread.
I take the point about people whose health is affected by smoking and have to again say, I am neither for it or against it.
All I will say is, when it comes to freedom of choice regarding pollution and the air that we breath, WHO DRIVES A CAR. I REST MY CASE.
I take the point about people whose health is affected by smoking and have to again say, I am neither for it or against it.
All I will say is, when it comes to freedom of choice regarding pollution and the air that we breath, WHO DRIVES A CAR. I REST MY CASE.
good point cruella - i don't drive a car, haven't for 18 years - but i will be doing soon, as it is essential for my job.
however, lets weigh up the merits of car use, the difference it makes to our lives - the convenience, safety, earn a living, less stress, etc etc
name one merit of smoking....?
in fact the only thing that keeps people smoking is the fact that its addictive, so the 'they like it' one can be taken with a pinch of salt
admittedly people do drive more than necessary, and it does pollute, but the 2 things are not really comparable.
people don't tend to sit in rooms with a car running and filling the room with fumes.
if your point is global warming etc, then yes you are right - but its not relevant on this thread.
however, lets weigh up the merits of car use, the difference it makes to our lives - the convenience, safety, earn a living, less stress, etc etc
name one merit of smoking....?
in fact the only thing that keeps people smoking is the fact that its addictive, so the 'they like it' one can be taken with a pinch of salt
admittedly people do drive more than necessary, and it does pollute, but the 2 things are not really comparable.
people don't tend to sit in rooms with a car running and filling the room with fumes.
if your point is global warming etc, then yes you are right - but its not relevant on this thread.
I take your point too, but I have to say, when one is walking past a line of cars, then fumes from the exhausts nearly choke you.
I drive, but choose not to take the car to work.
I inhale fumes all the time and that is outside in the street.
My point, and I will say again, I do not have strong feelings either way, we all have likes and dislikes, we all have objections to things in life.
As I also stated before, I detest the smell of stale alcohol in pubs and clubs, I hate when the odd person gets a bit loud and out of hand, so I made a decision not to go to pubs and clubs for that very reason. WE all have to make informed decisions, we all know the risks and it is down to each and every one of us to decide how we want to live.
I drive, but choose not to take the car to work.
I inhale fumes all the time and that is outside in the street.
My point, and I will say again, I do not have strong feelings either way, we all have likes and dislikes, we all have objections to things in life.
As I also stated before, I detest the smell of stale alcohol in pubs and clubs, I hate when the odd person gets a bit loud and out of hand, so I made a decision not to go to pubs and clubs for that very reason. WE all have to make informed decisions, we all know the risks and it is down to each and every one of us to decide how we want to live.
joko.
Just another point I would like to make.
You say my comments are not relevant on this thread. Well, I would disagree with you. Read from the beginning and you will find this thread is not really about smoking. It is about peoples rights being taken from them without consultation. You think my reasoning is about global warming. It is not.
Think about this.
If tomorrow, the government told you not to use your moble phone as it was dangerous to health.
Not to drive you car as the fumes pollute the air that we breath and is bad for you.
Well.
l at one time they government was in favour of smoking as no-one knew the dangers and by that time half the population were addicted to tobacco.
What would you do?
Cars are stressful in their own way. Road rage, pollution, thousands are killed by cars every day.
People do not get the exercise they really need to stay healthy. After all, there is such a thing as public transport.
If your rights to do all those things were taken away tomorrow, how would you feel. No job. not able to pay the bills.
So, I have to say, this thread if read properly, is about peoples freedom being taken away, not a thing to do with smoking.
Just another point I would like to make.
You say my comments are not relevant on this thread. Well, I would disagree with you. Read from the beginning and you will find this thread is not really about smoking. It is about peoples rights being taken from them without consultation. You think my reasoning is about global warming. It is not.
Think about this.
If tomorrow, the government told you not to use your moble phone as it was dangerous to health.
Not to drive you car as the fumes pollute the air that we breath and is bad for you.
Well.
l at one time they government was in favour of smoking as no-one knew the dangers and by that time half the population were addicted to tobacco.
What would you do?
Cars are stressful in their own way. Road rage, pollution, thousands are killed by cars every day.
People do not get the exercise they really need to stay healthy. After all, there is such a thing as public transport.
If your rights to do all those things were taken away tomorrow, how would you feel. No job. not able to pay the bills.
So, I have to say, this thread if read properly, is about peoples freedom being taken away, not a thing to do with smoking.
the thread may have turned into a 'rights' issue, but the question encee asked is quite definitely about smoking and the rights of smokers - others have steered it round to being about the government taking our rights away for the sake of it.
the smoking ban is about health and is not a whim - millions of people were consulted and most were in favour of it, so to say it is just the governments opinion is just plain wrong.
there are numerous threads on this site alone wher majority of people are in favour of a ban and think smoking is disgustin.
you said "do you drive a car? I rest my case"
well what case? you haven't really made a case.
this thread is about smoking damaging health and being inflicted on people who have no choice in the matter.
car fumes are outside and are generally an issue of global pollution, not inside our pubs.
encee even mentions landlords profits suffering and risks of boycotts.
you are steering the debate round to what point you want to make, but your point about mobile phones and cars is ridiculous - as i already stated, phones and vehicles are extremely useful parts of our lives - many could not function without them - smoking serves no function whatsoever other than to poison people, and it is unfair to expect others to allow themselves to be poisoned because some selfish person wants to create smoke..
the smoking ban is about health and is not a whim - millions of people were consulted and most were in favour of it, so to say it is just the governments opinion is just plain wrong.
there are numerous threads on this site alone wher majority of people are in favour of a ban and think smoking is disgustin.
you said "do you drive a car? I rest my case"
well what case? you haven't really made a case.
this thread is about smoking damaging health and being inflicted on people who have no choice in the matter.
car fumes are outside and are generally an issue of global pollution, not inside our pubs.
encee even mentions landlords profits suffering and risks of boycotts.
you are steering the debate round to what point you want to make, but your point about mobile phones and cars is ridiculous - as i already stated, phones and vehicles are extremely useful parts of our lives - many could not function without them - smoking serves no function whatsoever other than to poison people, and it is unfair to expect others to allow themselves to be poisoned because some selfish person wants to create smoke..
No, I am not turning this around as you suggest.
I was never given a choice about whether smoking in pubs were right or wrong. As I said, I choose not to go to them. My choice.
I have no choice when I am subjected to fumes from cars while out for a so called healthy walk with my dog. I have no choice when I am forced to use a mobile phone at my work. I have family who were killed at a young age due to a car accident.
What did we all do before cars were invented or mobile phones. You know, I think you have to think more about this topic, which I am glad to say, is now closing. I will not be getting into a debate with someone who refuses to accept the impact of the smoking ban. You are obviously not one of those people who have lost their livelyhood through it. Pubs in my town have closed down, Swallow Hotel went into liquidation recently. I care about the damage done to other people if it is through something I do, so I say, live and let live. I am glad to say with reservation that I am a far more tolerant person than you.
To be honest, I really do not care in the least about the smoking ban. I am sure smokers will all do what they feel is right. What I do object to, is the fact I object to being dictated to by this government as to how I live, and no, I HAVE NOT TURNED THIS AROUND AT ALL, it is you who does not understand what is happening in your own little world. I could go on about other things, but it would just fall on deaf ears. All you seem to be saying is, get rid of smoking and everything in this country will be fine. Sorry, It does not work like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was never given a choice about whether smoking in pubs were right or wrong. As I said, I choose not to go to them. My choice.
I have no choice when I am subjected to fumes from cars while out for a so called healthy walk with my dog. I have no choice when I am forced to use a mobile phone at my work. I have family who were killed at a young age due to a car accident.
What did we all do before cars were invented or mobile phones. You know, I think you have to think more about this topic, which I am glad to say, is now closing. I will not be getting into a debate with someone who refuses to accept the impact of the smoking ban. You are obviously not one of those people who have lost their livelyhood through it. Pubs in my town have closed down, Swallow Hotel went into liquidation recently. I care about the damage done to other people if it is through something I do, so I say, live and let live. I am glad to say with reservation that I am a far more tolerant person than you.
To be honest, I really do not care in the least about the smoking ban. I am sure smokers will all do what they feel is right. What I do object to, is the fact I object to being dictated to by this government as to how I live, and no, I HAVE NOT TURNED THIS AROUND AT ALL, it is you who does not understand what is happening in your own little world. I could go on about other things, but it would just fall on deaf ears. All you seem to be saying is, get rid of smoking and everything in this country will be fine. Sorry, It does not work like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cruella - get a grip!
Your nonsensical ill-thought-out outpouring is pointless. you have added 2+2 and come up with 5.
You have put words in my mouth.
as i have said this is about THE SMOKING BAN, not every other form of pollution and banned things in the world!
You cannot discuss every single little thing in one single topic.
there are lots of related issues here but there is no space to mention every single one of them.
encee raised a particular topic, not a vague free for all.
i dislike the government enforcing bans left right and centre too - but look outside your little world and you will see that smokers are in the minority and this ban has been a long time coming - it works in scotland and ireland and it will work here.
you sound like a petulant child
i realise some businesses may suffer, which is unfortunate, but given that they have never given a moments thought to the health of their customers, then why the hell should i worry about them??
you say people will stop coming to pubs because of the ban and therefore livelioods are at risk - well the people who stop coming will just be replaced by all the people who don't go to pubs now because of the smoke!!
I know many people who suffer in pubs and steer clear.
i too believe in "live and let live" - but not when someone elses pointless '"live" shortens and affects the quality of my "live".
i'd rather lose my livelihood than my life - as i am sure would anyone else.
try actually reading posts before jumping in with
un-prepared premature responses
Your nonsensical ill-thought-out outpouring is pointless. you have added 2+2 and come up with 5.
You have put words in my mouth.
as i have said this is about THE SMOKING BAN, not every other form of pollution and banned things in the world!
You cannot discuss every single little thing in one single topic.
there are lots of related issues here but there is no space to mention every single one of them.
encee raised a particular topic, not a vague free for all.
i dislike the government enforcing bans left right and centre too - but look outside your little world and you will see that smokers are in the minority and this ban has been a long time coming - it works in scotland and ireland and it will work here.
you sound like a petulant child
i realise some businesses may suffer, which is unfortunate, but given that they have never given a moments thought to the health of their customers, then why the hell should i worry about them??
you say people will stop coming to pubs because of the ban and therefore livelioods are at risk - well the people who stop coming will just be replaced by all the people who don't go to pubs now because of the smoke!!
I know many people who suffer in pubs and steer clear.
i too believe in "live and let live" - but not when someone elses pointless '"live" shortens and affects the quality of my "live".
i'd rather lose my livelihood than my life - as i am sure would anyone else.
try actually reading posts before jumping in with
un-prepared premature responses
Just a quick note to end this. I am sure that if you did what I am suggesting , reading the post, you would have to come up with the same impression that I have from reading yours. That is, you are obviously a very selfish person who does not really care one hoot about anything around you, unless it affects you directly. Let the landlords and business people fall by the wayside. I mean that does not affect your life does it?
Never mind that a common sense approach to this would have been to create a smoking environment for smokers and a non smoking enviornnment for non - smoker , Just because it does not directly affect you, then just cut the smokers out of the picture. The truth of the matter is, after decades of this government reaping billions in tax revenues from companies and smokers alike and only after pressure from outside our shore,did the government decide to do anything about it and the way they have gone about it, I would suspect that the people who made the decisions were either related to yourself or of the same ilk. You accuse me of living in my own little world. At least I live in a world where other people live and not where it just revolves around myself and my own desires as you appear to do.. All that I mentioned in a previous comment is POLLUTION> Be it smoke, exhaust fumes etc. All the same thing in my book. I would hate to think in such a selfish way as you.
Either way, this is the last time I will be posting any answers to you. You appear to be the type of person who has to have the last say, whether it be right or wrong, I for one will not be reading any more of your selfish comments.
In fact, I found your last post more of a personal attack and I am sure you would agree with me. As in any rational discussion, any personal attacks are usually from someone who has no more valid points to make.
Bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Never mind that a common sense approach to this would have been to create a smoking environment for smokers and a non smoking enviornnment for non - smoker , Just because it does not directly affect you, then just cut the smokers out of the picture. The truth of the matter is, after decades of this government reaping billions in tax revenues from companies and smokers alike and only after pressure from outside our shore,did the government decide to do anything about it and the way they have gone about it, I would suspect that the people who made the decisions were either related to yourself or of the same ilk. You accuse me of living in my own little world. At least I live in a world where other people live and not where it just revolves around myself and my own desires as you appear to do.. All that I mentioned in a previous comment is POLLUTION> Be it smoke, exhaust fumes etc. All the same thing in my book. I would hate to think in such a selfish way as you.
Either way, this is the last time I will be posting any answers to you. You appear to be the type of person who has to have the last say, whether it be right or wrong, I for one will not be reading any more of your selfish comments.
In fact, I found your last post more of a personal attack and I am sure you would agree with me. As in any rational discussion, any personal attacks are usually from someone who has no more valid points to make.
Bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as you very well know - you were the one who started with the personal attacks - not me "i would go on but it would fall on deaf ears", "your own little world", "i wont talk because you refuse to accept" etc
again you have not read the post, and it would seem you did not read your own either.
nowhere have I said there should not be anywhere for people to smoke!
that is the crux of the argument for gods sake!!
that smokers should not smoke in a place where people are enclosed and cannot escape the fumes - build separate room, areas, shelters = whatever
the point is it should be the choice of the individual to be in a smokey or to not be in a smokey room!
non-smokers have been forced to inhale others smoke for generations, and now measures have been taken to safeguard the health of non smokers and every ones up in arms.!!
I am amazed that the whole of your last post centred on me being 'selfish' for not worrying about the poor old smokers!
the very idea that i would give a toss about the people who have been poisoning me for most of my life, have ruined occasions, have made me ill - is laughable!!
if you honestly think the desire not to have my life shortened because other people choose to poison my lungs is just me being selfish, then i suggest you look up the word you spout so often in the dictionary - as you clearly have no idea what it means
who is being selfish when a hole is burnt in my clothing by someone carelessly brushing past with a ciggy? or the burn on my arm? or the person who blows smoke in my face in mid sentence? or sits with ciggy up by my face? and generally exacerbates my LIFE THREATENING ILLNESS, just so they can have a ciggy...and you expect me to be worried about them not liking the ban!!
when they show me some consideration, then i will show them some.
again you have not read the post, and it would seem you did not read your own either.
nowhere have I said there should not be anywhere for people to smoke!
that is the crux of the argument for gods sake!!
that smokers should not smoke in a place where people are enclosed and cannot escape the fumes - build separate room, areas, shelters = whatever
the point is it should be the choice of the individual to be in a smokey or to not be in a smokey room!
non-smokers have been forced to inhale others smoke for generations, and now measures have been taken to safeguard the health of non smokers and every ones up in arms.!!
I am amazed that the whole of your last post centred on me being 'selfish' for not worrying about the poor old smokers!
the very idea that i would give a toss about the people who have been poisoning me for most of my life, have ruined occasions, have made me ill - is laughable!!
if you honestly think the desire not to have my life shortened because other people choose to poison my lungs is just me being selfish, then i suggest you look up the word you spout so often in the dictionary - as you clearly have no idea what it means
who is being selfish when a hole is burnt in my clothing by someone carelessly brushing past with a ciggy? or the burn on my arm? or the person who blows smoke in my face in mid sentence? or sits with ciggy up by my face? and generally exacerbates my LIFE THREATENING ILLNESS, just so they can have a ciggy...and you expect me to be worried about them not liking the ban!!
when they show me some consideration, then i will show them some.
i also did not mention the affects on landlords etc so don't accuse me of being against them.
the likelihood of pubs closing because of a smoking ban is very slim, the pub would likely have been in difficulties anyway, as as i have said all the smokers who don't come to the pub will be replaced by all the people who will now be free to venture out to places they were previously unable to go for health reasons.
like i said - you started with the sneery comments - all i said was this issue was about the smoking ban, not pollution and global warming etc, and you didn't like that.
next time try to stick to the topic - bringing up every last nuance, aspect, theme, topic etc that are even vaguely related to the subject doesn't help - you cannot discuss it all in one post.
and try to respond to what people have actually said, not just blurt out some knee-jerk rant that focuses on things that the person actually did not say.
I would add 20 exclamation marks to the end of this post, but I am not 15 so I won't.
the likelihood of pubs closing because of a smoking ban is very slim, the pub would likely have been in difficulties anyway, as as i have said all the smokers who don't come to the pub will be replaced by all the people who will now be free to venture out to places they were previously unable to go for health reasons.
like i said - you started with the sneery comments - all i said was this issue was about the smoking ban, not pollution and global warming etc, and you didn't like that.
next time try to stick to the topic - bringing up every last nuance, aspect, theme, topic etc that are even vaguely related to the subject doesn't help - you cannot discuss it all in one post.
and try to respond to what people have actually said, not just blurt out some knee-jerk rant that focuses on things that the person actually did not say.
I would add 20 exclamation marks to the end of this post, but I am not 15 so I won't.
The smoking ban is the best thing that this government has brought in. I no longer go home on a Friday/Saturday night with a sore throat and smelling of fags. Many of my friends are smokers and they have no problem having to go outside in any weather for a smoke. When it comes into place in England you will reap the benefits. No pubs or clubs in my areas have gone out of buisness and the bar owners that i have spoken to have not noticed a drop in profits. There is not much else to do though in my area apart from drink.
encee - it would be good if they were kept genuinely separate - not just 2 sides of the same room, but what if all your pals smoke?
they will want to go to the smoking pub and avoid the none smoking one.
you are not going to go and sit in another pub on your own are you?
its unfortunate but i can't see a way that it would work.
i think the only way is to build outdoor shelters and awnings etc for people to use.
i would think if all pubs had had decent working extractor fans for the last 20 years, all this may not have become such an issue...but landlords like the smokey atmosphere...it makes people thirsty and drink more...
they will want to go to the smoking pub and avoid the none smoking one.
you are not going to go and sit in another pub on your own are you?
its unfortunate but i can't see a way that it would work.
i think the only way is to build outdoor shelters and awnings etc for people to use.
i would think if all pubs had had decent working extractor fans for the last 20 years, all this may not have become such an issue...but landlords like the smokey atmosphere...it makes people thirsty and drink more...
i am a non smoker and i would be more than happy to be with my husband and friends in a smoking pub and to be honest the local we go to i think they would think the same with 85% people not in favour of the ban on smoking so i would not be in a room on my own, the pub would be packed and full of happy people relaxing as we do now
well theres nothing we can change now.
i suspect in a few years, if it has caused a lot of problems, the government will think about creating some solution, but right now they want to see if it works - as it has done elsewhere.
i would also dispute the 85%, in my experience it is about half and half, but given that neither of us has conducted a proper survey, these assumptions could have been arrived at just from our friends and the people who complain the loudest.
my local has an enclosed beer garden and a wide pavement at the front so i believe they intend to put up awnings to shelter the smokers, hopefully that will work out for them
either way, we will soon see
i suspect in a few years, if it has caused a lot of problems, the government will think about creating some solution, but right now they want to see if it works - as it has done elsewhere.
i would also dispute the 85%, in my experience it is about half and half, but given that neither of us has conducted a proper survey, these assumptions could have been arrived at just from our friends and the people who complain the loudest.
my local has an enclosed beer garden and a wide pavement at the front so i believe they intend to put up awnings to shelter the smokers, hopefully that will work out for them
either way, we will soon see
the main point is the government want everybody to stop smoking- no smokers anywhere in uk -
simple.
i am no mathematican or statistican or any other offical figure- but it is pretty obvious that if everyone stopped smoking- this country would be in major trouble- how much of the cost of a packet of smokes go to the government ????
there would be a huge black hole in this countrys economy .......
you cant smoke, you cant drink, you cant eat fatty foods, you cant get a prostitute , you cant carry a weapon, you cant speed , you cant put your plastic bottles in the glass bottles container ????
what is going on ?????
simple.
i am no mathematican or statistican or any other offical figure- but it is pretty obvious that if everyone stopped smoking- this country would be in major trouble- how much of the cost of a packet of smokes go to the government ????
there would be a huge black hole in this countrys economy .......
you cant smoke, you cant drink, you cant eat fatty foods, you cant get a prostitute , you cant carry a weapon, you cant speed , you cant put your plastic bottles in the glass bottles container ????
what is going on ?????
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