Hypocrite USA

[brionon]

Is there another Country that is as Hypocritical as the USA ? Can you remember their Politicians 'Glad-handing' Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness when their hands were still stained with the blood of innocence?
Hypocricy your name is the USA. Or am I wrong ?

[Lonnie]

I'd say, at the moment, this one, probably more so, If you want an explanation, say so and i'll oblige, but a bit later.

[Pajama Girl]

You're wrong.

[Lonnie]

Hi PG, whose wrong, me, or brionon?.

[nucleardream]

Those are not good examples to support your claim, b. Try again.

[Pajama Girl]

Hi Lonnie.

BrionOn. He asked directly, "Or am I wrong?" Yes. BrionOn is wrong.

[jake-the-peg]

Well you could also cite the US funding of the contra terrorist organisation (only they're not called terrorists because they were supposedly friendly to the US but the murders and destruction were much the same)

Or Norriega who was actually on the CIA payroll until it all went sour and the US invaded Panama to arrest him (Can one country legally invade another to arrest it's leader for offences in that second country?)

But then you could also cite France for secretly assisting Argentina to commission Exocet missiles in the Falklands war .

And as it's 50 years since Suez you could also cite the UK for concocting a secret treaty with France and Israel to create a pretext to invade Egypt.

Truth is any country's foreign policy is usually pretty hypocritical when you start digging.

How about Tony Blair's celebration at East Timor's independance after all the weapons the UK sold Indonesia for use there?

[pageylady]

I would say hypocricy your name is politics. USA's political hypocricies are more likely to be common knowledge as there is a free press, and the English (including myself) love to read about American's political errors-it makes us feel better about our own. Several other countries (I would say most) are guilty of serious hypocricies, the comment before me names just a few.

[maxximus]

all valid points jake, although in truth the arrest of norriega had very little to do with the invasion of panama, but everything to do with the soon to expire canal treaty. i highly recommend watching ' the panama deception' an excellent documentary on how with the help of their massive media machine u.s. foreign policy is really manufactured and implemented. using this same formula and applying it to recent events, the true gravity of the levels of u.s. hypocrisy can truly be seen. http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/panama_decepti on.htm

[Andyvon]

I remember the US glad-handing Brionon. I also remember the US giving sanctuary to known IRA murderers and bombers and refusing to arrest them. I remember NORaid funding the IRA and it never being shut down.
The US funded the Contras, Saddam and Osama bin Laden when it suited them. It seems that the US was fine with terrorism until it suddenly hit them. Then they decided they didn't like it. Worse than that, they then roped into their fight those people like us who have been battered for years by US funded terror groups!
I am also puzzled when I keep hearing the phrase 'freedom and democracy' being trumpeted from the US. I can't reconcile that with the Native Americans. They are treated like 3rd class citizens, forced onto reservations, and they still have their lands taken now. I spent three months touring the US and I found everyone very friendly. However, I just couldn't find anyone even prepared to acknowledge that the Native Americans existed. I only saw a handful.

[noxlumos]

Well I tell you what Brionon , why don't you go back to NOT "gladhanding" Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness, to when if you were a Republican you had no voice which was granted any legitimacy. You know what people with no voice do? Finally they decide to MAKE you listen. Do you really want to go back to that? Or are we all doing a damned sight better now? Coming from Belfast and South Armagh I know which I prefer.
I do not like the present Govt of the USA, but your examples show no understanding of the social and political situation within the north of Ireland at that time.

[Pajama Girl]

Andyon: You are not credible. Three months touring the US?

The island where you live could fit, tip to toe, in the state of California. California is not even the longest of the coterminous states.

It is 3,360 miles from Seattle, Washington, to Miami, Florida. And on this route you could have met Snowamish, Cheyene, Dakota, Souix, Navajo, Hopi, Acoma, Laguna, Seminoe people -- to name just a very few of the tribes.

And, SHOCK, these Native Americans would be living and working just like ordinary people! Attorneys, government employees, and small businessmen and women.

On the way, you would have driven on the "Indian Nation Turnpike" in Oklahoma, a state which is wider than the widest part of the island on which you live. And Oklahoma is not even the "widest" of the coterminous states.

Did you plot a tour in the United States to AVOID us Native Americans? Did you ASK anyone about Native Americans? Could you even IDENTIFY a Native American if one were standing in front of you? Do you think they ALL LOOK ALIKE?

Your post shows no understanding of the social and political situation in the US.

[noxlumos]

I'd imagine he'd think, Pajamagirl, that all of the Native Americans' would be running round in war paint smoking peace pipes or whatever else they do in bad 1950's Hollywood "cowboy" films, just like all people from Northern Ireland wear balaclava's and tick.
It's not his fault, someone gave the poor man a stereotype overdose.
My friend's father incidentally was part Sioux part Irish and I never saw him with a balaclava or a peace pipe.

[Pajama Girl]

Thanks, nox. I was very upset last night. I appreciate your post which helped me understand Andyvon is suffering from a terminal overdose of bad 50's movies. It was his stretch to sound like he really understood American issues that insulted me. It showed his arrogance and it showed my heart.

You know, I was so upset that I deleted The AB from my browser list last night. I have yet to decide if I will continue to follow the News section of AB. Among the boring and predictable anti-Americanism, the vapid but passionate name calling, and the utter ignorance of situations outside the UK, I DO find interesting and thoughtful answers.

I just haven't decided if it is worth being abused and insulted more often than the times I am informed and illucidated.

I think that NEWS has trolls lurking about. I should ignore them.

Thanks again, nox. I watch your posts and often disagree but am always interested.

[Andyvon]

Sorry you two but I'm not suffering from any overdose of 50s films or anything else. Of course I don't think Indians wear paint. I didn't go from coast to coast but around the east coast and as far west as Iowa and Missouri in 1991.

Certainly, no one was prepared to talk about the subject which has never particularly bothered me. It's just when we see and listen to the news now things do appear rather ironic as the question prompts.

[Pajama Girl]

There is a big difference between "no one was even prepared to acknowledge that the Native Americans [sic] existed" and "no one was prepared to talk about that subject."

A good education prepares a person to discover new areas of inquiry by preparing one to seek out appropriate sources of enlightenment and ask intelligent questions.

A good education is an all-round thing. Anyone who professes any intelligence or education should surely be able to read and write and know a few basics of the world we live in -- not just fall back on the "Well, I didn't study that" chestnut.

Or this chestnut: "I only saw a handful" of Native Americans touring only the eastern US fifteen years ago and couldn't "find anyone even prepared to acknowledge" that the Native American existed.

[Andyvon]

Hey, maybe I hit a raw nerve about the Native Americans for some reason. I have never been particularly bothered by the subject Pyjamagirl. I found everyone I met very friendly and I had a wonderful time. But everyone seemd very reticent to talk about the subject. In fact, no one did - they just changed the subject and it was very obvious it was a sore point then too.
Brionan's question was about hypocracy and glad-handing if you recall. That's what I answered - I'm not too fussed about Native Americans with all respect to them.

[Andyvon]

Pyjama Girl and Noxlumos,

Lets finish this now shall we? It's become apparent that you are from the states and I didn't know these answers went so far. I didn't mean to cause any animosity.

I wonder if you can appreciate that in the UK we have just emerged from a 30-year campaign termed 'the bomb and the bullet'. Week after week, our towns and cities were shattered and people killed and maimed. I'm 45 now, but until the truce of 1998, most people of my age couldn't remember anything else. It was a way of life. The truce of that year now mercifully seems to be permanent and I, like many, hold no real ill-feeling. The groups were mostly fighting amongst themselves and against the government - not against my family or me.

However, we were continually told over the years that several of those groups were mostly funded from the US. Can you therefore see how astonished many were here felt in 2001 when the US suddenly took a different approach to terrorism? That is what Brionon's original question was alluding to and that is what I answered.

If I also mentioned the Native Americans then it was misplaced and I really wish I hadn't. If you feel it was unnecessary and it caused you upset then it was unintentioned - and I apologise. I will only say that I have had a sleep disorder for several years and my brain is usually very exhausted. I tend to read and hear things wrong and I answer in ways that can cause bewilderment.
If I caused you any offence Pyjama Girl and Noxlumos, then I am a big enough person to apologise. I'm sure that you are big enough to accept.

Let's lay this silly thing now. I will certainly be more circumspect in the future with how I answer questions as I didn't realise how far away other ABers were. I've seen some other answers from you both and I look forward to seeing and enjoying more in the future.

All the best to you both,

Andy.

[Carakeel]

I agree wholeheartedly with Nox on the "glad-handing" issue. In my eyes one of the worst offenders as far as inciting violence and terror in Northern Ireland was and still is Ian Paisley and it has always amazed me that he is never reprimanded for his mostly vile tirades. Not only have very few British politicians ever had the guts to stand up to this vile mannered being, but most have "glad-handed" him on numerous occasions, including various British Prime Ministers! So you think only the Americans are hypocrites??? I don�t believe Ian Paisley has ever genuinely wanted peace in Northern Ireland. Like most I have always been against the violence that has gone on there, but I do not see it as coming from Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness anymore. They at least have had the guts to change their ways and have done a lot to make the peace process work ... What has Ian Paisley done? He calls everyone else Terrorists when in fact he is one himself. When did his party ever lay down its weapons, or is that not considered necessary? I have never supported the IRA or for that matter any organisation that terrorises innocent people, but I am so tired of people pussy-footing around this nasty piece of work. There have always been two sides to the issue of violence in Northern Ireland and neither side has ever been blameless!!! So in answer to your question � In my view all politicians are hypocrites!!! I have worked for many as a simultaneous translator and I can tell you that I gave up my profession as I was sick and tired of the lies and deceit I witnessed! Are the Americans hypocrites? Well their politicians are, that is for sure, but then ours are no better!!! I would not condemn �the Americans� as hypocrites any more than I would �the Brits� though.

[Keeprockin]

A bit unfair to condemn an entire nation, (USA) Their politicians may be hypocritical,but then,who's aren't. Hypocrisy in politics starts as soon as they open their mouths. My limited trips to the US have resulted in finding the vast majority as great friendly people.