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Is afghanistan, america's vietnam II?
The US is to announce it is withdrawing from Afghanistan. It is hardly mission accomplished. Not quite as bad as Vietnam, but there is a hint of running away hurt. And the UK's objectives have not been accomplished either. Most people would admit the whole mission was a mistake (please feel free to prove me wrong).
What positives can the US (and the UK) take from this misadventure?
What positives can the US (and the UK) take from this misadventure?
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actually, Geezer, I was in favour of the invasion; I thought the Taliban posed a threat and I suspect they still do. And what's more I think we could have won. The mega error was to take our eye off the ball and charge off on a completely pointless invasion of Iraq as well. We couldn't cope with two wars and they've both left us withdrawing with our tail between our legs.
Oh, except that we're now rattling swords in Libya. So still no lessons learnt there either. Whoop de do.
Oh, except that we're now rattling swords in Libya. So still no lessons learnt there either. Whoop de do.
R1Geezer
UK forces in Afghanistan have done a pretty good job despite the odds being stacked against them. Our politicians let them down by putting them there in the first place. Secondly they did not give them the equipment to do the job. Thirdly, the poor leadership the lack of planning and no clear objectives left them not knowing what they were fighting for.
I have spoken to lads who have come back from Afghanistan, and if you think my criticism is is bad, you ought to listen to them, because they have lost mates and colleagues and feel bitterly let down.
To dismiss criticism as pinko lefty sniping, is an insult to those very young lads who have been sot at (and sometimes killed) on our behalf.
But back to the question - Any positives from it all?
UK forces in Afghanistan have done a pretty good job despite the odds being stacked against them. Our politicians let them down by putting them there in the first place. Secondly they did not give them the equipment to do the job. Thirdly, the poor leadership the lack of planning and no clear objectives left them not knowing what they were fighting for.
I have spoken to lads who have come back from Afghanistan, and if you think my criticism is is bad, you ought to listen to them, because they have lost mates and colleagues and feel bitterly let down.
To dismiss criticism as pinko lefty sniping, is an insult to those very young lads who have been sot at (and sometimes killed) on our behalf.
But back to the question - Any positives from it all?
Geezer, because we went in to win and we didn't. It wasn't a draw, either, because they're still there and we soon won't be (exactly like Vietnam, though without the airlifts from the embassy). We lost.
Only positive, in a roundabout way, was bin Laden's death, which was one objective, though a pretty poor reward for 10 years.
Only positive, in a roundabout way, was bin Laden's death, which was one objective, though a pretty poor reward for 10 years.
I have always believed that neither the UK nor the US should ever have gone into Afganistan, not into the other Arab countries. I have the greatest respect for the British and American soldiers who have gone into these wars though. They have put their lives on the line at the behest of, in my view, incredibly ignorant, self-obsessed politicians wanting to make a name for themselves; idiots who refuse to learn from the mistakes of the past and who think it is acceptible to ill equip and then sacrifice our young men at the drop of a hat. To me, it isn't a question of what positives the US and the UK can take from this misadventure really ... as I feel politicians want their names to stand out in history and this is more important to them than anything else. They chose not to learn from experiences and so I cannot see them taking anything positive from it. Hence, history keeps repeating itself over and over and over and over again! You may gather from this that I detest most politicians ... I have worked for some and know that their mindset is often not what the public might think it is.
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We have money and weapons, they have time !
they will just wait until we all leave then it will be business as usual for the Taliban.
The Afghan administration has close links to the Taliban and once the troops are out they will go back to running/terrorising the villages then the towns then the cities with their brand of islam and how they want their country run, not how we want them to run it.
As for Karzia, a puppet of the West, his days are numbered one way or another.
I imagine him and plenty of others have feathered their nests quite nicely with "aid/rebuilding" money us and others have given him.
Sadly yet again the whole excercise has been a total waste of life and money
they will just wait until we all leave then it will be business as usual for the Taliban.
The Afghan administration has close links to the Taliban and once the troops are out they will go back to running/terrorising the villages then the towns then the cities with their brand of islam and how they want their country run, not how we want them to run it.
As for Karzia, a puppet of the West, his days are numbered one way or another.
I imagine him and plenty of others have feathered their nests quite nicely with "aid/rebuilding" money us and others have given him.
Sadly yet again the whole excercise has been a total waste of life and money
I have said here so many times in the past that Alqaeeda was created by USA & CO to give them reasons to invade few countries. For argument sake if I believe that my above perception is wrong. Then biggest mistake they made in Afghanistan was that they put Taliban and Alqeeda in the same bracket. I have also said so many times that time will come when Taliban will become hero again in the eyes of the West (and it is happening). I have said so many times again that the real target has always been Pakistan (and that is happening too).
And only for geezer. I have said so many times that few people like their own values and life style. Does not matter how your media shows you the wrong pictures but they are not interested in your "CIVILISED" life style where 40% children do not even know who their real father is.
Finally to answer this question, according to one Russian major it took them 5 minutes to enter Afghanistan but took years of time and so much more to leave Afghanistan.
I would only mention an old saying about Afghanistan.
“You can invade (or go into) Afghanistan whenever you wish to do so, but you would only be able to leave Afghanistan when Afghans would let you do so”
And only for geezer. I have said so many times that few people like their own values and life style. Does not matter how your media shows you the wrong pictures but they are not interested in your "CIVILISED" life style where 40% children do not even know who their real father is.
Finally to answer this question, according to one Russian major it took them 5 minutes to enter Afghanistan but took years of time and so much more to leave Afghanistan.
I would only mention an old saying about Afghanistan.
“You can invade (or go into) Afghanistan whenever you wish to do so, but you would only be able to leave Afghanistan when Afghans would let you do so”
<<Yes the West invaded to try and Civilise the place>>
That is either very naive or very dishonest.
I thought Pres Bush said it was to find Bin Laden.
And to stop them providing safe haven for terrorists attacking the US.
And secure strategic assets in the Region.
Otherwise, why aren't we invading lots of other places to 'help civilise them'?
That is either very naive or very dishonest.
I thought Pres Bush said it was to find Bin Laden.
And to stop them providing safe haven for terrorists attacking the US.
And secure strategic assets in the Region.
Otherwise, why aren't we invading lots of other places to 'help civilise them'?
I am as eager for the US (and UK) to leave Afghanistan as soon as possible, but I suspect the timing is more to do with Obama wishing to be re-elected than a shift in our military fortunes.
It is difficult to see any improvement since Obama sent in 30,000 more troops for a final push on becoming President. But he was elected on the Promise he would bring the troops home. If the US are still there during the 2012 US Election Campaign, he has clearly failed. So out come the troops, whether it is the best time or not for the chances of Afghanistan.
It is difficult to see any improvement since Obama sent in 30,000 more troops for a final push on becoming President. But he was elected on the Promise he would bring the troops home. If the US are still there during the 2012 US Election Campaign, he has clearly failed. So out come the troops, whether it is the best time or not for the chances of Afghanistan.
We have provided the groundwork for countries like China and Russia to exploit the mineral wealth of Afghanistan or Iraqi oil. They get an enormous foothold for free.
If only we could sit round the table at the very beginning, realise these countrys are not perfect, have there own rights and customs and stopped interfering the world would be a better place.
A general on the radio this morning said if we had justed bombed the camps after 9/11 and hit the tora bora mountains withheir 500lb bombs without sending in any troops the mission could have been accomplished. But then we insisted on women's rights, building some bridges and trying to transform the country into something different.
We need Chilcot MK II to learn the lessons of the Afghan adventure!
If only we could sit round the table at the very beginning, realise these countrys are not perfect, have there own rights and customs and stopped interfering the world would be a better place.
A general on the radio this morning said if we had justed bombed the camps after 9/11 and hit the tora bora mountains withheir 500lb bombs without sending in any troops the mission could have been accomplished. But then we insisted on women's rights, building some bridges and trying to transform the country into something different.
We need Chilcot MK II to learn the lessons of the Afghan adventure!
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