Italy faces a debt crisis now!

[Postdog]

and I daresay time will tell with regard to bailouts, etc following on from Ireland and Greece.

Anyone else of the opinion that this europe thing isn't worth having and we would be better off going it alone. Personally they lost me with butter mountains years ago, and then sealed it when they banned pork chops with kidneys in them!

[emmie]

Is that why i can never get one of my favourites, pork chop and kidney, lovely. Sure someone will come and tell you are being anti EU or some such, personally it lost me when fishermen have to throw catch back in the sea, that doesn't fit in with whatever requirement, and im with Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall on this one

[Ric.ror]

I dont really like HFW - I think there is something a bit pervy about him
Can I say that?

[ABerrant]

Personally they lost me when throughout the 60s France didn't want the UK to join their club.

[New Judge]

I think we need to ask ourselves this: why it is that in many polls upwards of 60% of people asked have serious misgivings about the UK's continued membership of the EU with some of the polls suggesting that, if a referendum were held, more than 50% would vote for a change in the nation's relationship with Europe, but only 3% (about 20 or so) of MPs have similar views?

[emmie]

The people have little say in these matters, we elect our MP's but they do not, at least i don't think so, speak for us. Once in power its though we don't count. If a referendum were taken now, and if left to the people of Britain, i'm sure a large majority, rightly or wrongly would elect to leave the EU.

[Ric.ror]

I think we need to ask ourselves why none of the major parties has want us to leave the EU

[emmie]

Because they do well out of it, and the PM whoever it is, needs to be seen to be part of the EU set up, a player, and not sitting on the sidelines, like billy no mates. There are i am sure, lots of dissent in other countries, people i have spoken with on my travels, expressed similar views to many British people about the EU.

[jno]

I iamgine British exporters would just love to lose preferential access to one of the world's bigger markets. And the British public would be only too happy to pay the resulting higher prices at home, because it's a matter of principle, and this is far more important than mere money to the British.

[flip_flop]

Europe is our bigest trading area so I'd rather be in the club than out of it, but I would prefer it to be simply a trade 'club' rather than a club that affects sovereignty.

[ichkeria]

"I think we need to ask ourselves this: why it is that in many polls upwards of 60% of people asked have serious misgivings about the UK's continued membership of the EU with some of the polls suggesting that, if a referendum were held, more than 50% would vote for a change in the nation's relationship with Europe, but only 3% (about 20 or so) of MPs have similar views?"

It's because MPs understand the issues better.

[emmie]

so you are saying that unless you are an MP you don't understand what's involved.

[rojash]

"why it is that in many polls upwards of 60% of people asked have serious misgivings about the UK's continued membership of the EU with some of the polls suggesting that, if a referendum were held, more than 50% would vote for a change in the nation's relationship with Europe, but only 3% (about 20 or so) of MPs have similar views? "

Could it possibly be because most people involved in the political world are aware of the realities of life in a global economy, whereas the knowledge of the vast majority of the British public is limited to the half-truths, exaggerations, and outright lies of such publications as the Daily Mail, and the Sun?

Postdog's complaint about pork chops is a perfect example.

[emmie]

so anyone who doesn't read the The mail, or the sun, knows what going on?

[New Judge]

I have a sneaky suspicion, Ric.ror, that it is because they (the politicians) know which side their bread is buttered whilst they have scant regard for whether the electorate have any bread at all.

There is no “preferential access” afforded to the UK as a member of the EU, jno, that could not be secured through trading agreements such as those enjoyed by the non-members of the EU who are members of the European Free Trade Area (EFTA). Currently Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland enjoy this status and additionally all bar Switzerland have negotiated membership of the European Union internal market. The agreements these nations have negotiated give them all the access to the markets of EU member states without the millstone of EU membership and all the undemocratic nonsense and cost that full membership entails.

It is a convenient myth for politicians to maintain that we would be somehow “shut out” of Europe if we were to cease our membership of the EU. Many countries trade with the EU without being members. It is simply not the case that business between the remaining EU states and the UK would somehow cease overnight.

As far as the British public being happy to pay higher prices to maintain their principles, the cost to the taxpayer of EU membership (and complying with the myriad of regulations that spew out of the organisation) is substantial to put it mildly and the benefits of leaving would be enormous.

[New Judge]

Members of Parliament are supposed to represent the views and wishes of their constituents at Westminster, however inconvenient to the government those wishes may be. The idea that “they know best” and the electorate is ignorant is insulting in the extreme.

Most MPs (with one or two honourable exceptions) toe the party line regardless because they too know what’s good for them (show any dissent on behalf of your constituents and you’re out).

So the policy determined by the executive holds sway. That is why I hold out no hope whatsoever that we will ever be released from this madness regardless of the damage it causes to the UK.

[Old_Geezer]

"but only 3% (about 20 or so) of MPs have similar views"

IMO because you don't do your career chances any good by not toeing the party line. No one can serve 2 masters at all times. If you are in your position by the patronage of a political party, then you have a problem when it disagrees with the desires of your constituents, whom you are supposed to represent.

[Old_Geezer]

Ah: I see you have posted something similar.

[rojash]

"so anyone who doesn't read the The mail, or the sun, knows what going on?"

Clearly, if the this is a response to my answer, you are not even capable of understanding two simple paragraphs (there is nothing in my reply that could be construed as you have chosen to construe it). That being the case, how can you hope to understand the complexities of modern politics, and form any kind of valid judgement?

[New Judge]

I would suggest, rojash, that your contention that “...most people involved in the political world are aware of the realities of life in a global economy,” is somewhat misplaced.

Most people in the political world (again with one or two honourable exceptions) have no idea whatsoever of the realities of life, either in a global economy or anywhere else. Many of them are career politicians who have graduated to Westminster either via local authorities or as interns to sitting MPs and ministers. A large number of them have never held a job of any sort outside that small world and have no notion whatsoever of the problems that businesses (especially small businesses) in the UK face today courtesy of EU generated regulation and control, which the UK authorities generously “gold plate”. For them the “global economy” is a set of monthly figures on a spreadsheet (probably with a nice looking chart created from the data for them by one of their lackies so that they do not get troubled too much with the numbers, The lackey, of course, aspires to and will no doubt achieve a position similar to that of their master thus ensuring that the whole farce remains intact.

It is the people of this country, the employees, the managers, the entrepreneurs, the businessmen (small and large) that keep the UK going, and are aware of the realities of life in the UK. It is they to whom MPs should listen and make sure that their views are widely known in Westminster.

[rov1100]

I wonder why Britain has dropped down the list of wealthy countries? Maybe its because we are dealing with monopoly money ie the pound. The only way we can keep afloat is to keep devalueing it. The £ in your pocket is worth far less than only a few years ago while those who use the Euro are much richer