More countries in debt

[dave50]

The reason for this is that for the past fifty years, all political parties in many countries have tried to bribe voters with extra spending on social security, welfare, health education with borrowed money. All this spending is unsustainable and now the chickens have come home to roost. Spending is going to have to be drastically reduced and people will have to get used to standing on their own two feet again instead of expecting the state to looking after them and paying for everything from cradle to grave. It will be harsh but there is no alternative.

[Sqad]

hat about sums it up Dave.

[Sqad]

"That"

[ichkeria]

"It will be harsh but there is no alternative. "

Yes there is - because by your logic there will be even more incentive to "bribe the poor voters". The argument that there is no more money won't wash because again, by your logic, there never was enough money to start with :-)

And don't forget the lenders either. They won't want to go out of business (!)

[Gromit]

Most countries don't have social security, welfare, health education.

And there was me thinkinkin the UK debt was mainly attributed to:
- Economics Recession (lower tax receipts, higher spending on unemployment benefits)
- In particular, tax receipts from stamp duty and income tax were badly hit by recession.
- Financial bailout of Northern Rock, RBS, Lloyds and other banks.

http://www.economicsh...omy/uk-national-debt/

[Davethedog]

This can't be right can it. Everyone knows that the world economic problems are because Gordon Brown didn't regulate the banks.

[Frank97]

I can't say that I really understand all/any of this debt thing, it seems to me that the whole planet needs auditing so we can work out just who owes who what. Surely if I owe you £10 and you owe me £10 we just call it quits and carry on.
Like I said I just don't get it at all.

[rov1100]

It does seem strange that countries with the most debt are the main providers to countries that do not have debts. On a personal level if an individual built up a big debt on a credit card the advice would be to tackle his own debt before going on a spending spree even if the purpose is to help strangers.

[New Judge]

You’re partly right, Gromit. The UK’s national debt was exacerbated by lower tax receipts and a small increase in Social Security payments as a result of the financial crisis of 2008 and consequent recession.

However, that was very much only part of the story. From 1997 to 2008 (before the crisis reared its head) government spending increased from £312bn to £575bn – 84% or more than 48% after inflation. During that time unemployment was fairly stable and the housing market was reasonably buoyant. The percentage of GDP spent by the government rose from 37.5% in 1997 to 40% in 2008.

However, public services did not increase either in quality or quantity by anything like that figure. Unfortunately Labour administrations seem to measure their success by the amount of money they manage to spend. There is no check that the additional money spent provides value for taxpayers. As an example GP’s salaries increased by almost 100% in that time. Did the quality of Primary Healthcare increase by 100% in that time? That provided by my local practice most certainly did not. In fact it declined alarmingly.

So as not to be unfair, it is a fact that overall government debt doubled from 1992 to 1997 (following the 1992 recession) and the first term under Blair saw it reduce from £348bn to £312bn by 2001. But then the rot set in and government debt rose to £525bn by 2008. Remember, these were the so-called “good” years. There was no recession, no particular fiscal instability, just profligacy. It is clear that the UK’s debt problems began long before the problems of 2008.

[starone]

How can you blame one man for all that has happened.Gordon Brown is not the master of the universe. It is obviously the collective faults of many, - bankers, governments and all who have power.

[DrFilth]

>> bribe voters with extra spending on social security, welfare, health education with borrowed money <<


that must mean that ireland geece and italy have better benefits for the out of work people

if we are not next on the list that would also mean there are other countries that look after the unemployed better than us


there was me thinking all the immigrants come here for the benefits

[DrFilth]

greece just sounds like geece :)

[New Judge]

I don’t think I blamed one man, Starbuck. The only person I mentioned was Blair, and then only to say that his first administration did well to reduce government debt.

But since you mentioned The Greatest Chancellor the World Has Ever Known, it is remarkably coincidental that under his “prudent” watch public spending increased by 50% in real terms, some 600,000 people were added to the public payroll and there was no significant improvement to the main public services (well, certainly not 50% worth anyway). Add to this selling a large chunk of the nation’s gold reserves at the bottom of the market (“to diversify our portfolio”) and plundering the country’s pension schemes and I think that is enough to be going on with.

I accept that the events of 2008 may have been outside his control, but the country’s finances would have been more robust and we would have been in a better position to weather the storm had we not pee’d all our money up the wall in the preceding ten years.

[KARL]

I suspect that while Gromit's statement is substantially correct if you consider the full list of countries in all the world, in fact all the countries that have a debt problem actually have primarily run up that debt paying for the various public support systems such as those he lists - this thread is after all about national/government debt, not the sum of all private debt. Generally speaking, the only other way governments can incur large/crippling amounts of debt is through military expense/adventure. The UK indulges in both.