Laying the blame

[sp1814]

Melanie Philips and Max Hastings have laid the blame for the recent riots on the 'liberal intelligensia'...but I've been thinking...

Shouldn't we look at British society and ask ourselves, "Have we set a good example?"

We have politicians fiddling their expenses.

We have bankers almost bankrupting the country and being rewarded with huge bonuses.

We have journalists bugging the phones of the parents of murdered children.

We have police in cahoots with certain sections of the press.

Could it be argued that Britain is sick from the top downwards, rather than the opposite way around?

[ichkeria]

If Melanie Phillips and Max Hastings are blaming "liberalism" for the riots then I wonder how they feel about being in the same camp as the state-controlled media of countries such as China, Iran and Russia, which have been saying more or less the same thing. The ruling classes of those countries rule by fear and the acquiescence of their people. They jump at any chance to ridicule and rubbish the freedoms that make us, in my opinion, a special country for all the faults that need to be addressed. They are insanely jealous of the fact that many of their people admire us (however blindly at times).
I note also, that it is the practice of many to fume things like the HRA - so long as they have no cause to seek recourse to it themselves. At which point their tune swiftly changes.

[Ankou]

i think one thing that is endemic from top down/bottom up is that as a society we appear to be full of individuals and corporations that consider if you can get away with something illegal or even immoral, then you might as well do it.

billionaire tax evaders, mp expenses, bankers, benefit cheats, rioters and looters, general criminal class are generally all on a level playing field, so in some ways yes, it is cultural or economic liberalism.

[ichkeria]

"as a society we appear to be full of individuals and corporations that consider if you can get away with something illegal or even immoral, then you might as well do it."

I personally don't equate liberalism with that. Some might argue that "liberalism" allows you to get away with those things, but that doesn't explain the rampant corruption, and similar attitudes, at all levels of society in e.g. Russia, which is the anithesis of "liberal".

[Ankou]

i would interpret liberalism as equal rights for all. in this sense, the rioting class want what everyone else with money has. a sort of free for all.

[Ankou]

"because the lack of discipline in school meant they could get away with ''playing around'' rather than learning"

cop out. blame someone else / the establishment for my lack of morals and bad behaviour. the worlds against me etc.

sorry eddie but most of that is rollocks. even in the days of regular corporal punishment in schools there were thugs, vandals and rioters with no respect for society and the establishment.

[Old_Geezer]

The problem is not that a whole generations are either good or bad but that a small swing in attitudes make the group as a whole either likely or unlikely to indulge in this sort of intolerable anti-social behaviour. For whatever reason, the experience of most is that attitudes as a whole have deteriorated over time, and one can only look to see what we, as a society, are getting wrong.

Certainly the increase of individual self importance has not helped. To create a good society one needs to be taught the balance between one's rights as an individual and one's duty to the rest of the public. And that seems to be on a downward spiral.

Once, many would agree, discipline was too strict, resulting in pupils being hit with rulers or other physical punishment for minor things, such as blotting your exercise book. But one can not help but think the desire to correct that has sent the pendulum swinging too far. Even if trying to understand the difficult pupils works, we don't have the resources to pussyfoot around, and there is always the danger that if you tried it would be seen that those who play up get given all the attention/advantages. Society needs general systems applicable to all, that achieves the respect citizens need.

But to go back to the main point, it isn't so much liberalism is wrong and intolerance right, its is about knowing where the balance is such that one gets what

I don't think it is likely to discover a system whereby each individual is treated perfectly to achieve the best, practical considerations mean there will always be something to complain of. But surely we can do better than we presently are.