How many more will return in coffins?

[grasscarp]

This story and these pictures show such dignity from those that are suffering
http://www.dailymail....-Wootton-Bassett.html
and below the picture of the young man no longer with us
The officer was leading a 10-man patrol to the nearby village of Dactran to discuss a meeting of elders planned for the next day when he was hit by an improvised explosive device on August 12
Too many lives being lost to a hopeless cause and an unwinnable "war".

[sandyRoe]

I couldn't agree more. The Americans want to be out before the next presidential election. If they go so will we. It's galling to see people die there for no good reason.

[rich47]

You are so right ... yet there are 5 pages of inane drivel on this site about big brother.
My mind has never been so boggled.
Unfortunately the solders have no choice.
All the best.

[grasscarp]

Thank you Sandyroe and rich for your comments. I would say more but political correctness does not allow it. Suffice it to say that the freedom and laxity of the UK has made this a haven for many who do not deserve it and are here as econimic migrants and a platform for many who are criminals in their own country and preach hatred and even attack us. Those that are willing to sacrifice their own blood to defend our country are deployed to defend an indefensible cause. Makes no sense.

[Teddy_boy]

Im sure your post is compassionate and well meaning. But soldiers will return in coffins forever more and have from time immemorial.Soldiers fight , they kill other soldiers and they are themselves killed.The hard facts are , if you are a traffic warden you give out tickets , if you are a baker you bake bread or cakes , if you are a window cleaner you clean windows.If you are a soldier its a case of kill or be killed. A soldiers job is to kill or be killed. That's what they're trained for.Anyone entering the service knows that and accepts that. Lets not be stupid. Any loss is sad obviously but its a fact of life in the services that you could at anytime be killed.You make a life choice when you join.Tell me one war where no soldiers died on one or other side ?

[Teddy_boy]

Rich the soldiers have every choice. They joined up.If you don't want to fight the enemy then stay at home work in asdas or be a nurse or a doctor.You join the army and you know its to kill or be killed.Anyone who doesn't realise that or agree is living in cloud cuckoo land and needs a reality check.How many more will return in coffins?Hundreds probably thousands over the next few years and not only from Afghanistan.800,000 British troops killed and 2 million wounded in the first world war.The British army was virtually destroyed and a volunteer force replaced them. Lets keep things in perspective.Over 700 troops killed in northern Ireland from a force of 30,000.What was that for?Haven't we released many of the men who killed those soldiers?As i said a soldiers job is kill or be killed.That's why I'm not a soldier.But those brave enough to choose that career deserve our respect and appreciation.But don't denigrate their memory by saying what they chose to do was stupid or pointless.They choose to serve their country wherever and whenever they were told to.
Accept that as i do and admire both their bravery and their loyalty to their country.

[Teddy_boy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army

For anyone who thinks deaths in the British army only happened in the 21st century.Very interesting reading and puts things in perspective i think.

[jake-the-peg]

They had a choice Rich - they didn't think that joining the Army was some sort of holiday camp. They joined the Army looking for the chance to go and fight and shoot at people all sanctioned by someone else absolving them for responsibility.

I suggest you consider the 1,462 civillians who died *in the first 6 months* of this year alone.

They have no choice - they don't carry a rifle to fire back and they can't call in air support when it gets dangerous.

Oh and they are in their own country

[DTCwordfan]

On that logic, carp, we should have pulled out of Northern Ireland then....and allowed the IRA free rein, just as pulling out of Afghanistan and the region will lead to Al Qaeda and every other terrorist nut case free rein. I hope that you dont live in a major UK city then.

[emmie]

that's why we shouldn't have gone in the first place, blame the idiot politicians, and get them home as soon as possible. No one disputes they are soldiers, and go where they are told, but that doesn't mean to say you can't feel that it's an unwinable war. When the Afghan army, police take over, will that mean peace in Afghanistan, or that once all foreign troops are out, the country will revert back to how it was before, and that the Taliban will take back any ground it has lost over all these years.

[mightyWBA]

It's a pointless war and we shouldn't be there.
It isn't our country and we should leave it for the people there to choose it's destiny.
Leave them alone and they'll leave us alone.
This mess started in Iraq,should have left Saddam alone,the place is worse now.
Bring our troops home now.

[mightyWBA]

Thev difference with Northern Ireland DT is it is a part of the United Kingdom and the majority of it's population consider themselves British.
Our troops were their troops and had a good reason to be there.

[emmie]

DT, sorry but we shouldn't be there, and as someone who has been in the vicinity of a number of these atrocities here in the capital can safely say that it makes you ever more resilient not to give in to the terrorists.
I am convinced that even if we had never gone into Iraq, Afghanistan, there would be terrorist activity here, because they hate the west, or so it would seem, and the idea of western democracy. Let them get on with it, it's not, nor should it ever have been our fight. Blame Blair, Bush, they are the war mongers in all this debacle.

[anotheoldgit]

We all know that soldiers fight wars, and in the process some get killed.

But this isn't no proper war where the fighting is on a one against the other basis, no as in this case it was a 10 man patrol on their way to meet elders of a village when the officer leading his men was killed in a cowardly way by a hidden mine.

If we cannot come out of Afghanistan, then we should stop fighting with one arm tied behind our backs, and we should use every 21st century weapon available to us ie, planes, tanks, artillery etc, etc and drive those cowards back under the rocks that they emerged from.

JTP How many of those civilians were killed by their own countrymen, and will continue to to be so even after we have left?

Incidentally seeing that the Taliban don't wear uniforms, they are also 'civilians', if it comes to that.

[ichkeria]

I'm afraid I'm with those who say: it's a profession of choice, it's NOT a pointless war, and the worst enemy they face, albeit it unwittingly, are the moaners and carpers back home. It's PRECISELY why the Taliban keep doing what they d - because they want to nibble away at morale back home. That is an easier target than the soldiers they actually kill.
I am no blind supporter of Bush or Blair, but over the years I;ve come to be very tired of bullsh!t comments like "Bush and Blair are warmongers". Such comments are easy to make, but little or no serious thought goes into them and they add nothing to any serious debate. There are lots of good reasons to question the UK role in Afghanistan. I consider myself left of centre to say the least, but I've been won over by the "warmongers" in the case of Afghanistan.
I also deplore the way those on the "right" justify their opposition to the war, and consequent unwitting collaboration with the "enemy" by saying "ah, but they should be allowed to do the job "properly". In my simple mind we should allow those who know the job best to do the job "properly".

[grasscarp]

Thank you to all those who took the time to join in this discussion. Everybody has their own views and I respect them. However, as I see it there will never be a day that the war is "won" or anywhere near being over and on that basis we should withdraw asap and stop the injuries and deaths of people - soldiers and civilians.

[Gromit]

The Mine and the ambush are not exclusive to this war AOG, they have probably been a tactic in every war of the ladt century. And this notion we have a hand tied behind our back is nonsense. We have chosen to fight not on a battlefield but in towns and villages where civilians live. They did not ask us to come, they are not fighting us, and they deserve to to be killed by us. As it is, far too many are being killed, you seem to want our soldiers to have the right to kill people on our side and innocent women and children as well.

[Zeuhl]

<<killed in a cowardly way by a hidden mine. >>

What namby pamby nonsense!

The use of mines is extensive - we deploy them too though anti personnel mines are now subject to restrictions but only when used indiscriminately because of the risk to civilians.

Why is an IED any more cowardly than our snipers who do a fantastic job taking out Taliban sometimes from as far away as a mile and a half?

Why is an IED any more cowardly than dropping a bomb from an aircraft or a remote control drone piloted by someone thousands of miles away?

Heaven protect our troops from the ideas of armchair corporals like Old Git with no clue as to what's going on.