Soldiers dying , defence budget too costly .

[Teddy_boy]

Why don't the government disband the British army, recall all the troops and just keep a small air force and navy to protect the UK,charging the Scots if they want protection too.Its not like the UK is a serious world force and it would put an end to all the deaths and save a fortune that could be used elsewhere.

[Gromit]

Because we make £billions in armorment exports and thousands of jobs depend on us demonstrating how good our aircraft and systems are by bombing some sanding *** abroard. Without wars we would go bankrupt.

[Teddy_boy]

I may be wrong but i dont think you need to invade foreign countries so you can sell arms.Our army isnt a shadow of what it was.And businesses maje the profits from arm sales not the government.

[Gromit]

You have to prove weapins in battle, then sales go ballistic (no pun intended).

Any idea how many Exocet missiles the French sold before they sank ships in the Falklands, and how many they sold after? Clue, it was a hell of a lot more after.

[Teddy_boy]

I dont suppose you have heard of the Export credit guarantee scheme?In the late 90s the taxpayer was subsidising arms exporters to the tune of up to £billion per year.If you sold arms to a foreign country and they defaulted , as many did , then the taxpayer footed the bill.Not as black & white as you would first think.For example from just one parlimentary question in 1999 the figures paid by the DTI to british arms companies for defaults by £214.4 million,kenya £27.3m ,Egypt £52.5m ,Algeria £97.8m. Thats just £392 million paid in answer to one enquiry

[Gromit]

We call it Aid.

[Teddy_boy]

Paying off defaulted armas payments from countries with dubious human rights records?Strange indeed.

[Gromit]

Surely you mean, 'Good Business'?

[Teddy_boy]

Good business?To sell arms to a country that will default?And then pay the outstanding bill out of the public coffers to a company to make excessive profits?Would you recommend our government lending a billion pounds to Greece?Surely as good business as anything.That is of course sarcasm.

[Gromit]

But you can right off defaults as 'Aid' and look good.

Win win situation

[Teddy_boy]

But it totally contradicts your point of making money.Easier to send empty containers to egypt then pay the arms companies 200 million and say jobs a goodun.A loan to greeece could be called aid . lets give them 2 billion quid and look really good?

[Gromit]

You are forgetting that you would have sack arms workers in Government held or marginal seats, pay them loads of redundancy and then finance them on the dole. Far cheaper to let BAE Systems right off bad debts on their tax return (they would have avoided it anyway), any Carry on Regardless.

[Teddy_boy]

i never said close the arms firms.read what i post instead of jumping to assumptions.i said disband the army and keep a small navy ,which we only have in reality , and a small airforce , perhaps even get the aircraft carrier finished? No army for overseas deployments and a small force merely for home defence.We cannot afford to be the worlds security guard and we are not the empire of the 19th century.Time to wake up and reevaluate. Good evening to you.

[Gromit]

Not wishing to repeat myself, but foreign battles sell your arms which are produced in the UK. If we didn't indulge in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, we would not stand a chamce of selling EuroFighters or tanks or helicopters.

[Kromovaracun]

"Because we make £billions in armorment exports and thousands of jobs depend on us demonstrating how good our aircraft and systems are by bombing some sanding *** abroard. Without wars we would go bankrupt. "

Do you have a link or some kind of reference for this, Gromit? In my naivety and ignorance this isn't something I've come across. I'm sure arms sales etc. happen to some degree or another, but I've really never heard anyone argue that it's quite as fundamental to our economy as you're implying. How did you come across it?

[Also, I'm not sure you need to put weapons to war to test them.]

[jake-the-peg]

Do you have any concept of how many exocets the French sold after the Falklands?

"combat proven" I think is the term

http://www.topmilitar...he-france-reputation/

[Kromovaracun]

"Do you have any concept of how many exocets the French sold after the Falklands?"

Being honest? No, I don't. I don't really know that much about military technology. Hence why I ask.

Your link has kind of shut me up though. Methinks I should back out now coz I don't know enough about the subject matter. Will read with interest folks - enjoy :)

[Gromit]

Ever wondered why the US so eagerly export its latest weapons to Israel, and hardly ever put embargos on its Corporations that do so? It is because Israel will quickly test the systems in an hostile environment, and they will gain that all too lucrative "Combat Proven" status. Which is good for exports.

[Quizmonster]

Kromovaracun, Evan Davis had a recent TV series called something like 'Made in Britain'. The three manufacturing companies he concentrated on were McLaren for luxury cars, Brompton (I think) for luxury bicycles and B Ae for fighter aircraft etc.
Apart from the luxury-goods market, therefore, weaponry seemed to be just about all we had to offer as regards things MADE here. Apart from these, finance and concepts such as computer applications British companies lease out for OTHERS to manufacture are just about all we have left.

It's clear that arms sales are, indeed, vital to this country.

[Gromit]

Another success of the Falklands war was the Harrier Jump Jet. The US had already licenced and built its own version by the, which in turn proved itself in the Gulf War. Sadly, it was all too late for the British programme which had been scrapped.

[scotman]

Some interesting stuff in the tables of this article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry