Body & Soul7 mins ago
Same old mistake.
http://www.dailymail....cratic-directive.html
This has nothing to do with cost cutting and everything to do with ethos.
We have one of the worst cancer survival rates in Europe simply because the hospitals do not have the facilities in either doctors or diagnostic resources to meet the referrals of the GP's.
So how is the Government going to redress this,?........by diverting more money to the GP's so that they can send more patients to a service that cannot cope.........utter madness.
GP's and PCT should be slimmed down to the minimum, attached to hospitals as a huge polyclinic and the money diverted to the hospitals for more radiological equipment and medical resources.
This will NEVER happen for Political reasons....the electorate will call it more cost cutting and will bleat ....inconvenience, and so our cancer survival rates will remain poor compared to other countries.
This has nothing to do with cost cutting and everything to do with ethos.
We have one of the worst cancer survival rates in Europe simply because the hospitals do not have the facilities in either doctors or diagnostic resources to meet the referrals of the GP's.
So how is the Government going to redress this,?........by diverting more money to the GP's so that they can send more patients to a service that cannot cope.........utter madness.
GP's and PCT should be slimmed down to the minimum, attached to hospitals as a huge polyclinic and the money diverted to the hospitals for more radiological equipment and medical resources.
This will NEVER happen for Political reasons....the electorate will call it more cost cutting and will bleat ....inconvenience, and so our cancer survival rates will remain poor compared to other countries.
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Sqad //GP's and PCT should be slimmed down to the minimum, attached to hospitals as a huge polyclinic //
So we would all have to travel many miles to our nearest hospital. Go by bus , taxi or car. Pay to get into an already inadequate car park , join a queue, wait god knows how long to see a doctor who is different every time you go. So instead of a quick visit to our GP we would have to allocate half a day or more. To build your polyclinics would cost a fortune in the building and infrastructure even if there was room next to the hospital to do it. I dont know a single hospital within 20 miles of me which has the room. They can't find room a more parking space let alone
// a huge polyclinic //.
//slimmed down to the minimum//
What do you call minimum ?
To do what you suggest would cost tens of millions and you talk about
saving money and diverting it to pay for:
//more radiological equipment and medical resources. //
What money ? We don't have it now and with your idea we would just add
to our children's debt.
So we would all have to travel many miles to our nearest hospital. Go by bus , taxi or car. Pay to get into an already inadequate car park , join a queue, wait god knows how long to see a doctor who is different every time you go. So instead of a quick visit to our GP we would have to allocate half a day or more. To build your polyclinics would cost a fortune in the building and infrastructure even if there was room next to the hospital to do it. I dont know a single hospital within 20 miles of me which has the room. They can't find room a more parking space let alone
// a huge polyclinic //.
//slimmed down to the minimum//
What do you call minimum ?
To do what you suggest would cost tens of millions and you talk about
saving money and diverting it to pay for:
//more radiological equipment and medical resources. //
What money ? We don't have it now and with your idea we would just add
to our children's debt.
A couple of my friends have died because they never had a scan. One had been going to his GP doctor a lot over a 2 year period because he knew something was up and he kept getting fobbed off. Finally he collapsed, taken into hospital and they told him he had advanced cancer, it had spread everywhere and he had a month to live. The other case was very similar.
The conclusion is he either had a very bad doctor, or the doctor was more concerned with saving money.
The conclusion is he either had a very bad doctor, or the doctor was more concerned with saving money.
I agree re- the logistics. My two local hospitals are in urban areas. They don`t have any more land. Where would they put the polyclinics? Would they shut down another department in the hospital to make room? I`ve been to GPs in at least three other countries (Cyprus, Australia and US) and they all had the same set up as us - ie, a town based surgery not attached to a hospiital. The problem with the NHS is that there are far more people drawing off it`s services than there are paying in the system. The books aren`t balanced.
modeller
//So we would all have to travel many miles to our nearest hospital. Go by bus , taxi or car. Pay to get into an already inadequate car park , join a queue, wait god knows how long to see a doctor who is different every time you go//
Yes, do you want modern medicine, with waiting times for operating and consultation markedly reduced ( we wait up to between 6 and 18 months for an operation...this is nonsense in the 21 st century, not replicated by any other country) and quick referrals to the hospital based funding.
Until this happens we will always be at the bottom of the league tables for cancer survival.....and do you know what?...the majority of the population could't care a toss providing that nothing was changed in the NHS....madness.
///So instead of a quick visit to our GP we would have to allocate half a day or more. ////
Yes, why not if you could get your consultations, blood tests, X-Rays done in one visit rather than multiple visits as happens now.
Listen...........the health Workers time in the NHS is more valuable than your time and it is your function to go to them, rather than them got to you.
///I dont know a single hospital within 20 miles of me which has the room///
20 miles? for Pete's sake........20 miles is NOTHING to get excellent and improved health care....it is done on other countries, why not in the UK?
///To do what you suggest would cost tens of millions and you talk about
saving money and diverting it to pay for:
//more radiological equipment and medical resources. //
The billions that the Coalition is going to pour into the GP service....this should be redirected to the hospital service.
Well, here is the bottom line....the NHS is bleeding to death, haemorrhaging money at an alarming rate and if there is not massive re-organisation the system will collapse.
//So we would all have to travel many miles to our nearest hospital. Go by bus , taxi or car. Pay to get into an already inadequate car park , join a queue, wait god knows how long to see a doctor who is different every time you go//
Yes, do you want modern medicine, with waiting times for operating and consultation markedly reduced ( we wait up to between 6 and 18 months for an operation...this is nonsense in the 21 st century, not replicated by any other country) and quick referrals to the hospital based funding.
Until this happens we will always be at the bottom of the league tables for cancer survival.....and do you know what?...the majority of the population could't care a toss providing that nothing was changed in the NHS....madness.
///So instead of a quick visit to our GP we would have to allocate half a day or more. ////
Yes, why not if you could get your consultations, blood tests, X-Rays done in one visit rather than multiple visits as happens now.
Listen...........the health Workers time in the NHS is more valuable than your time and it is your function to go to them, rather than them got to you.
///I dont know a single hospital within 20 miles of me which has the room///
20 miles? for Pete's sake........20 miles is NOTHING to get excellent and improved health care....it is done on other countries, why not in the UK?
///To do what you suggest would cost tens of millions and you talk about
saving money and diverting it to pay for:
//more radiological equipment and medical resources. //
The billions that the Coalition is going to pour into the GP service....this should be redirected to the hospital service.
Well, here is the bottom line....the NHS is bleeding to death, haemorrhaging money at an alarming rate and if there is not massive re-organisation the system will collapse.
Our Medical Centre from December is being houses in a brand new State of the Art building which looks as big as any hospital to me. Small ops, physio, Xray facilities will be done at the surgery as well as all the other stuff they do know. Incorporated into the building are social services and the ambulance base. Do you think this is a waste of resources Sqad. Serious problems will of course be referred to the 2 hospitals - 25 miles in each direction with no linked transport system.
Personally, I am really pleased. It's already provides an outstanding service.
Personally, I am really pleased. It's already provides an outstanding service.
Lofty
//Personally, I am really pleased. It's already provides an outstanding service.//
Which is completely unaffordable.
Why quibble at 25 miles for expert care............I do give up here.
Let me give you a tip Lofty, if either you or Mr lofty has signs of a heart attack, ask the paramedics to by-pass all smaller units and take you to the nearest Cardio-thoracic unit, even if it is 50 miles away....that will give you the best chance of survival.
//Personally, I am really pleased. It's already provides an outstanding service.//
Which is completely unaffordable.
Why quibble at 25 miles for expert care............I do give up here.
Let me give you a tip Lofty, if either you or Mr lofty has signs of a heart attack, ask the paramedics to by-pass all smaller units and take you to the nearest Cardio-thoracic unit, even if it is 50 miles away....that will give you the best chance of survival.
As you might remember, this has already happened Sqad, I dialled 999 and he had a stent fitted within 2.00hrs at one of the 9 leading UK heart units. There are no smaller units near us for him to be taken to.
Sqad, can you please tell me how the average person in a poor rural area can get to a hospital 25 miles away in a non emergency situation. They can't afford to and to get to that hospital by bus is impossible for some. There are no trains either.
Not everyone can afford cars or taxis. This is precisely why our medical centre is virtually a small hospital - thank goodness.
What you are proposing will virtually cut the less well off from getting medical care.
Sqad, can you please tell me how the average person in a poor rural area can get to a hospital 25 miles away in a non emergency situation. They can't afford to and to get to that hospital by bus is impossible for some. There are no trains either.
Not everyone can afford cars or taxis. This is precisely why our medical centre is virtually a small hospital - thank goodness.
What you are proposing will virtually cut the less well off from getting medical care.
Lofty....the UK economy suffering because people take a day off?...do me a favour, the majority wouldn't hesitate to take a day off and this has been the situation for the past 50years.
There are pluses and minuses when you decide to live in the country and availability of health care is one and indeed the most important.
Lofty.........don't worry ....it will never happen and the NHS will "totter on" being at the bottom of the league in survival of many conditions.
There are pluses and minuses when you decide to live in the country and availability of health care is one and indeed the most important.
Lofty.........don't worry ....it will never happen and the NHS will "totter on" being at the bottom of the league in survival of many conditions.
Sqad, we get better service here than those do in big cities!! So I shall remain. I can get a doctor's appointment the same day, for a start. And I am less likely to get ill living in Norfolk - we have a longlivety (sp) record.
But that apart, most people that live in villages in the country have been here all their lives, so haven't taken health care into account, and besides we deserve just the same good healthcare.
Sqad, I know very few people who take a day off to visit the doctors.
You paint such a black picture of the UK and its inhabitants, I am surprised you bother coming back here!! ;o)
But that apart, most people that live in villages in the country have been here all their lives, so haven't taken health care into account, and besides we deserve just the same good healthcare.
Sqad, I know very few people who take a day off to visit the doctors.
You paint such a black picture of the UK and its inhabitants, I am surprised you bother coming back here!! ;o)
Sqad //..that is all we can afford and the patients would get quicker and better treatment//
In what way would it be quicker. I would still have to ring up for an appointment and then travel many miles to your polyclinic.?
You polyclinic would also have to get all the extra staff to operate your
//more radiological equipment and medical resources.// plus all the support staff. In turn all the specialist staff would have to be trained in medical schools on a continuous basis .
You still haven't answered my question .
//slimmed down to the minimum//
What do you call minimum ? What would you cut out to save all those tens of £millions to finance your polyclinics ?
In what way would it be quicker. I would still have to ring up for an appointment and then travel many miles to your polyclinic.?
You polyclinic would also have to get all the extra staff to operate your
//more radiological equipment and medical resources.// plus all the support staff. In turn all the specialist staff would have to be trained in medical schools on a continuous basis .
You still haven't answered my question .
//slimmed down to the minimum//
What do you call minimum ? What would you cut out to save all those tens of £millions to finance your polyclinics ?
Lofty
Any criticism of the NHS and one gets this sort of response.
////You paint such a black picture of the UK and its inhabitants, I am surprised you bother coming back here!! ;o)///
This is why things will never change and as you think that it is good health care and can't be improved, then that is the important thing.
Any criticism of the NHS and one gets this sort of response.
////You paint such a black picture of the UK and its inhabitants, I am surprised you bother coming back here!! ;o)///
This is why things will never change and as you think that it is good health care and can't be improved, then that is the important thing.
Sqad I have travelled you know. I am not a complete country bumpkin!! I can see the failings in the system, of which there are many. I can also compare with other countries. Most little Spanish towns I know have their own 24 hour medical centres by the way. But you think it is wrong for us in the UK.
Perhaps all the people who live in the country should move into the towns/cities with hospitals, including the huge farming community. A lot of people don't have the choice when it comes on deciding where to live. They have to stay where they are.
What you propose is just unworkable.
Perhaps all the people who live in the country should move into the towns/cities with hospitals, including the huge farming community. A lot of people don't have the choice when it comes on deciding where to live. They have to stay where they are.
What you propose is just unworkable.
modeller.
treatment//
//In what way would it be quicker. I would still have to ring up for an appointment and then travel many miles to your polyclinic.? //
True, being centralised, and better equipped, you should get a quicker appointment(how many times do you hear patients complain of waiting times to see their GP?) the consultation and investigations would be done in the same building. Consultants would be at hand for second opinions and the whole system streamlined.
///You polyclinic would also have to get all the extra staff to operate your
//more radiological equipment and medical resources.// plus all the support staff. In turn all the specialist staff would have to be trained in medical schools on a continuous basis .///
Very true, but the salary scale would have to be re-balanced as at the moment it is financially beneficial to go into GP rather than in the hospital service....again an absurd anomaly.
You still haven't answered my question .
//slimmed down to the minimum//
What do you call minimum ? What would you cut out to save all those tens of £millions to finance your polyclinics ?//
I am a clinician, not an economist, but money could well be saved by amalgamating services at a central point. Sorry I cannot be more specific, but we are dealing with improved health care as well as making the financial aspect of the NHS more efficient.
treatment//
//In what way would it be quicker. I would still have to ring up for an appointment and then travel many miles to your polyclinic.? //
True, being centralised, and better equipped, you should get a quicker appointment(how many times do you hear patients complain of waiting times to see their GP?) the consultation and investigations would be done in the same building. Consultants would be at hand for second opinions and the whole system streamlined.
///You polyclinic would also have to get all the extra staff to operate your
//more radiological equipment and medical resources.// plus all the support staff. In turn all the specialist staff would have to be trained in medical schools on a continuous basis .///
Very true, but the salary scale would have to be re-balanced as at the moment it is financially beneficial to go into GP rather than in the hospital service....again an absurd anomaly.
You still haven't answered my question .
//slimmed down to the minimum//
What do you call minimum ? What would you cut out to save all those tens of £millions to finance your polyclinics ?//
I am a clinician, not an economist, but money could well be saved by amalgamating services at a central point. Sorry I cannot be more specific, but we are dealing with improved health care as well as making the financial aspect of the NHS more efficient.
Gromit //The conclusion is he either had a very bad doctor, or the doctor was more concerned with saving money. //
Why do you assume those are the only reasons ? Apart from the fact that they suit your political bias.
//One had been going to his GP doctor a lot over a 2 year period because he knew something was up and he kept getting fobbed off. //
If he knew ! Why didn't he get a second opinion ? Why didn't he say he wasn't satisfied ? Why didn't he ask to see a consultant ? If he was that ill that he finally collapsed why didn't he call/go to A&E much earlier. ?
Why do you assume those are the only reasons ? Apart from the fact that they suit your political bias.
//One had been going to his GP doctor a lot over a 2 year period because he knew something was up and he kept getting fobbed off. //
If he knew ! Why didn't he get a second opinion ? Why didn't he say he wasn't satisfied ? Why didn't he ask to see a consultant ? If he was that ill that he finally collapsed why didn't he call/go to A&E much earlier. ?
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