United Kingdom

[rich47]

Today we have another unelected numty in the House of Lords (Earl of Caithness no less) pedalling the myth the the SNP wants to take Scotland out of the United Kingdom.
The SNP position is that if the people want it then the queen would remain head of state in an independent Scotland.
The union of the crowns which brought about the United Kingdom would remain.
It is the union of the parliaments which would be reversed.
The self same numty also wants people outwith Scotland to have a vote in the Scottish Independence Referendum. I think we may have discussed this point before and perhaps agreed that it is no one else's business other than the people of Scotland.

[rich47]

many apologies I spelled numpty wrongly.

[dzug2]

Isn't the SNP playing semantics here in an attempt to have it both ways? The concept of a (united) kingdom implies (at the top) a united government/parliament. OK you have regional/local government as well but not instead. So no overall parliament no longer united kingdom.

Bit like Australia/Canada - they still recognise the queen but no one would argue that they are part of the UK.

[New Judge]

I beg to differ, rich.

When a club discusses who should or should not remain members it is all the existing members who have a say, not just the member concerned.

All members of the UK should have a say on this issue. The Scots will probably find quite a large number of the electorate in the other constituent parts of the UK may well grant the SNP its wish. It may not have occurred to them that there are others with a vested interest in the future of the Union who might like their voices heard.

[boxtops]

The people outside who may vote - how would you decide who they should be? My OH was born in Scotland and is a Scotsman through and through, but hasn't lived there for years.

[wolf63]

I don't know anyone in Scotland who wants to fully break free and be fully independent - apart from the politicians.

It is way too early in the morning for such a discussion - my brain isn't cranked up yet.

The Earl of Caithness is not a numpty - he's a eejit.

[rowanwitch]

I think a lot of english people would vote to let the scots break free... and wuld vote against letting them back when or if it goes pearshaped...

[boxtops]

Rowan - as long as they then don't want to take back their tarmacadam, or their mackintoshes, or penicillin, or radio, or television, or bicycles....

[jake-the-peg]

Is the definition of numpty someone who holds opinions differing from yours?

I think the real point here is that whilst the people of Scotland have consistantly voted SNP that doesn't mean they actually want independance.

Opinion polls have consistantly shown this.

This makes the whole argument irrelevant.

They'll have referendum, it'll vote to stay part of the UK and the issue will be dead for 20 years.

[bazwillrun]

jake-the-peg
"Is the definition of numpty someone who holds opinions differing from yours?"

that would seem to be the stance you normally take

[Ankou]

they wave this around as if all the people of the uk will feel somehow threatened or concerned by the possibility.

the only ones who would actually shy away in the event, is, as said, the scots.

[jake-the-peg]

You may think that Baz but I don't think I normally descend to name calling.

Certainly not in the original premise

[jackthehat]

They had better get on with it......

Shur Shean Connery has vowed to only return to live in Scotland when it is independent....and he's already 81!!

[rowanwitch]

OOh let them take bikes back.... and bagpipe recordings,

[ichkeria]

"When a club discusses who should or should not remain members it is all the existing members who have a say, not just the member concerned. "

But this isn't the same as a club deciding who should be its members. It's a voluntary (these days) union of 4 nations. Scotland being kept in the UK, or removed from it, against its own wishes, by the votes of people elsewhere in that union, would be wholly unacceptable.
On the other hand suppose The Republic of Ireland wanted to join, or Scotland did something nasty that made its expulsion a possibility, then a UK-wide referendum might make more sense.

[Quizmonster]

"When a club discusses who should or should not remain members it is all the existing members who have a say, not just the member concerned."

Does this mean that, if a member of a tennis club decides his playing days are over and he no longer wishes to go on paying his annual membership fees, all the other members are allowed to say, "No way, José!"

[ludwig]

Why can't the rest of us have a vote to decide whether we want to be independent of Scotland ? - without any input from the scots of course - after all it'd be nobody's business but ours.

[mungbeanz]

If they became independant, how many of them would slink over the border to get benefits do you think?

[Old_Geezer]

IMO although the name "United Kingdom" might suggest a mere "union of crowns", it has to mean more than that. To be truly united it have to have a union of parliaments too. If one section has independence then how is it really united? An irrelevant monarch is meaningless. So by defintion independence would means being out of the union in all but name.

[wolf63]

Scots, in general, are tired of being thought of, internationally, as living in another part of England.

It's not as if we could all go down to the border and saw our way free (anyone got any C4?) - or could we?

[whiskeryron]

In my honest opinion I think we should fight to turn the clock back to have what we used to have ie. ''The United Kingdom'' sod the French & the Germans let's have a referendum to come out of the EU & let them get on with sorting out the Euro between themselves. I've heard all the arguments about the mess we would be in if we ''joined out'' all I can say is we managed very well without them before & I'm bloody sure we'd manage again.

Ron.