Sectarian violence in Egypt.

[sandyRoe]

An authoritarian leader, like Mubarak, could have kept these base passions in check. Now the Coptic Christians seem to be under siege in their own country. Will Egypt turn into a theocratic state?

http://uk.news.yahoo....9-dead-195710008.html

[naomi24]

I hope not. It would be a retrograde step for Egypt. Bloody religion!

[Mosaic]

Hmmm - the frightfulness was going on under Mubarrak, but news about it was harder to obtain. It isn't good and most of the time Copts and Muslims get on OK - but there are extremists on both sides that cause friction. Copts being in the vast minority will come off worst when this happens.

[sandyRoe]

The Muslim Brotherhood seem to have been the ones with enough faith, or fanaticism, to oppose the Mubarak regime. It's starting to look as though they now want their pound of flesh.
I'm reminded of Iran just after the fall of the Shah.

[Mosaic]

yes - and conversely, the Copts were very close to the Farouk regime, dominating many administrative posts and this has not been forgotten on either side.

[jake-the-peg]

I think you're rather jumping to concusions.

Back in February some muslims actually guarded Christian churches.

You can't tar all muslims with the same brush any more than you can blame the archbishop of Canterbury for child abuse by Catholic priests

[rov1100]

Just another reason for not getting involved in Middle East countries. We don't even know who the good guys will be in future. Every country we have got involved in turned out to be hopeless and you can include Iraq and Afghanistan in this. Libya will be next on the list.

[sandyRoe]

I didn't want to try and tar all Muslims with the same brush. But if some with weapons and determination are set on a particular course the vast majority of decent people would not try to interfere.
Those who Jake-the peg mentioned, who defended Coptic churches, must be very brave.

[naomi24]

What's happening in Egypt isn't just about Egypt.

[sandyRoe]

Indeed. I mentioned Iran in an earlier post. After the Shah went there was a power struggle between the Mullahs and people who might have liked a secular society. We know how that ended.
I fear Egypt will go the same way.

[emmie]

Not just a retrograde for Egypt, but this is what many fear about the so called Arab Spring, that the people supplant one tyrant for another, if the Islamist factions take control then you could see the more of this, across all the regions.

[naomi24]

Exactly em, which is just one of the reasons I said 'what's happening in Egypt isn't just about Egypt". It's a sad world.

[ichkeria]

"Not just a retrograde for Egypt, but this is what many fear about the so called Arab Spring, that the people supplant one tyrant for another, if the Islamist factions take control then you could see the more of this, across all the regions. "

Well, that would be Egypt's business I think.
I think the people there are entitled to be given a little credit for removing an unelected ruler with little or no help from that leader's erstwhile's allies. Who knows what will happen anywhere, but all these countries are different: one can't just lump them all together.

[Gromit]

The model these newly freed countries are supposed to follow is secular Turkey. Our fellow NATO ally and a muslim country manage to have a democracy while thwarting the religious pressures from fundamentalists. The army play a strange role in keeping the religious leaders in check.

Unfortunately, in places like Egypt and Tunisia, their is a vacuum left after the fall of dictators and there is a free for all grab for power. The youth who initiated these revolutions do not want an Iran style religious dictatorship, but that is just what they might end up with.

[ichkeria]

It's dangerous to lump all these countries together, just because they are (mainly) Islamic. In particular I cannot see any correlation between Iran and Arab Egypt particularly, And even Egypt, Libya and Tunisia, all Arab countries, are different, one from the other.
The break-up of the Soviet Union didn't lead to a uniform experience for the ex-republics, Some became western style democracies and some are still effectively living their Soviet past for reasons not worth going into here.

[emmie]

It may be Egypts business, but seeing as how our soldiers are fighting and dying in these regions, suggest it will be our business too. If the Fundamentalists get a foot hold in these countries, regions then what is happening in Afghanistan will appear small potatoes. It is what many fear, supplant one dictator for worse, it's why people like Gaddafi survived for so long, because he kept them at bay. One should be keeping a close eye on who will take over in Libya, even with the people currently in power, it wouldn't take much i am sure for the Islamist factions to supplant those running the country. You may not wish to lump them all together, but they have one thing in common, all run by unpopular dictators, and once they are gone, then ripe for the pickings.

[ichkeria]

There aren't any British soldiers, so far as I am aware "fighting and dying" in any of the so-called Arab Spring countries.
Personally I think it is incredibly unlikely that any of the N. African countries will sucumb to extremism. The dictators in those countries, for many years played on Western paranoia about "Islamic extremism" to maintain their hold on power, repressing as they did so, political oppnents, a handful of whom, for all we know might have gone on to be dangerous extremists but who knows? Gaddafi himself conducted a terrorist campaign of his own against the west, including Britain, involving the small matter of downing a civil airliner, having a policewoman shot, and funding IRA and Loyalist terrorism in N. Ireland. On the other hand Ben Ali in Tunisia was as nice as pie to his western allies, while behaving differently at home, So, vast differences there, even between two neighbouring countries.
Also, the average Tunisian, Libyan and Egyptian didn't risk life and limb to oust their rulers just to kowtow to a different one. If they rejected secular repression, why would they accept religious fundamentalism?

[keyplus90]

When any crime is investigated then the first thing investigator look into is that who benefited out of this. And that is exactly what their PM has said.

“The only beneficiary of these events and acts of violence are the enemies of the January revolution and the enemies of the Egyptian people, both Muslim and Christian,"

I can easily say that intelligence agencies of the countries that do not want Muslims Brotherhood in power might be behind that.

Having said that being a Muslim (originally) from a country (Pakistan) that is going through so many phases, I know that outside forces are always at work. With the first hand experiences I can very easily say that this might be the act of the people (or countries) that do not want an Islamic state. But what they usually end up with is a dictator they support who oppress his own people with their help and that scenario one after another is creating more and more hate towards Western countries among the younger generations. Then world (and that country) ends up having a regime where push & pull goes on. And that has been happening since 1st world war. The only difference in last 30 to 40 years (due to the technological advancement) has happened that its affects are not confined within the boundaries of those countries but show up in the countries that directly or indirectly were behind that “leadership and life style of our choice even in the country of others”. And that is the reason after a single incident like this we get panicked.

Perhaps it is time now that Western counties should leave others sort their own problems and most importantly let them live their own lives.

[Davethedog]

What has any western country done? Nothing this is an internal problem, only the blind or stupid would think otherwise.

[keyplus90]

Yes you are right that only blind and stupid would thik like that. because only stupid and blind can see what people with eyes are usually unable to see.

[emmie]

Britain is embroiled in Afghanistan, our soldiers fighting and dying, and quite honestly i don't see the point. They hate us, and we don't want to be there, so why are we. The sooner we get out the better, and then let those that want to turn the country back to the stone age get on with it.