Gang culture rears it's ugly head once again.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....-spree-Liverpool.html

I have to repeat once again, when are our politicians going to stop pussy footing about and take constructive and severely strict measures to stamp out this ever increasing gang culture amongst some of our young?

Look at these young faces, they are so hard looking what causes this? They have all there lives in front of them and they have to ruin it, why?

Good the judge decided to allow for these young thugs to be identified, why cannot it be the norm in all young criminal's cases?

Be interested to know what ABers might suggest would be an answers to the problem, without the usual "Bring back National service" because we all know that is never going to happen, more to the pity.

[daffy654]

I had a rubbish upbringing, I was brought up in council care from the age of 3 months. I was thrown to the mercy of the big wide world with no support at age 16 and left to cope.
All 3 of my children are well adjusted and have never been involved in gang culture.
I believe I succeeded with them through an incredibly fierce determination that they would not have to go through what I had. They were always encouraged in their education and told regularly that they were loved and valued no matter what.
My middle daughter went off the rails for a couple of years (not to a criminal degree) but is now firmly back on track and is a happy 22 years old working single mum to two beautiful boys.

Some parents just don't care what their kids get up to as they only had them to recieve benefits in the first place.

(I haven't read all the previous answers and apologise if I have covered what others have)

[sp1814]

Kromovaracun

Amazing how some people will 'blame the gays' whenever they can.

Remember when the whole Catholic abuse thing kicked off a few years back? Well, a senior advisor to the Pope claimed that on the gays too.

And let's not forget our current Pope who claimed that homosexuality was a greater threat to mankind that the destruction of the rain forests.

Weird.

[anotheoldgit]

Kromovaracun

In answer to your question, " Where have you plucked this from"?

http://ancienthistory...cles/a/fallofrome.htm

This also covers the points that are relevant even today.

http://www.rome.info/history/empire/fall/

1/ Decline in Morals and Values
2/ Political Corruption
3/ Unemployment
4/ Inflation
5/ Urban decay
6/ Military Spending

[anotheoldgit]

daffy654

Good for you daffy, although you made an old man very sad with the description of your childhood.

Everyone should be fortunate enough to able to look back on a happy childhood, I know I can.

But still daffy it looks as if you have been happy in the process of giving your children the upbringing that you unfortunately did not enjoy, and surely that must be a bonus at least?

[Kromovaracun]

AOG:

Your first link is actually written by a Classicist, N.S. Gill. So kudos for that. Unfortunately, the passage you've quite neatly selected is from his opening statement, referring to an overview of reasons that have historically been put forward in the literature. As anyone with even a cursory view of the subject will tell you, the 'malaise'/civic virtue angle comes from Gibbon - and if I remember right then probably to some degree from Toynbee (& Spengler) too in its more modern form. Both of these men are still valued today - but for their prose, ambition, and experimental methodology, not for their accuracy. The conclusions of both (especially Gibbon) has been buried by modern historiography. Read any modern history of Rome and you will see socioeconomic and military factors featuring most prominently. This is even demonstrated in your link - Gill references only Vegetius and Gibbon as people supporting some kind of 'decay' hypothesis. Goldsworthy is the closest modern equivalent cited and from what I can gather Goldsworthy's argument revolves far more around instability - which would make sense as he's a military historian.

Your second link is from a general tourist guide to Rome - which are not renowned for their historical accuracy or weighty historical analysis (which isn't a criticism - they don't really need to be). I do know partly from some limited reading (I confess the only writer I've really read specifically on this subject is Heather and a few other bits and pieces here and there), but also talking with practicing Classicists and historians today, and combined with my more comfortable understanding of how historians are understanding change more generally today, I struggle to think of any topic where 'decadence' of some sort (as opposed to just perceptions of it) is actually taken seriously as a factor in causation, for the reasons I outlined above.