prison sentences

[milly143]

I was watching a program on ITV2 the other night about a college boy who murdered his girlfriend because she dumped him (a true story). Unfortunately I cant remember his name but at the end of the program they said he got a life sentence and after serving 12 years, if now free. I am so disgusted in that. So, why doesn't life mean life?

[Grunty]

It does really.  He is only out on licence, and if he fails to behave, he will be back inside.  I am not sure if I can imagine being in prison every day and night for 12 years.  I'm sure  it would be long enough to convince me never to sin again.  On the other hand I could kill someone with a car and be fined a few pounds.  (The lack of intent doesn't make them any less dead).

[Didwot]

If there was no parole, and no release on licence, then there would be no incentive for prisoners to behave, or to reform.

[milly143]

yes, but he murdered someone. Why does he deserve to see the outside of a prison cell. Its not like it was an accident, he knew what he was doing. How do they know he won't do it again.

[Oneeyedvic]

As Didwot says, if life meant life, do you thin k he would behave himself while in prison. Do you think he would try to educate or better himself at all. Would you fancy being a prison guard where all the prisoners are in prison regardless of their behaviour?

He is (probably) also not a risk to the general public. He is unlikely to reoffend again. (most murderers - contrary to Daily Mail style headlines - will not reoffend).

Although he has taken a life, we don't know the full facts of the case (tv 'based on' stories are not known for accuracy). There may have been (and I use this is the loosest sense of the word) mitigating circumstances.

As said in the debate below regarding capital punishment, we really need to have compassion, or we are indeed no better than the murderers!

[wellhungjock]

And if his girlfriend was your sister?

[Oneeyedvic]

Wellhungjock - What is the point of bringing emotion into the equation. A judicial system cannot work on emotive circumstances - only on the raw facts. Tough but true.

[wellhungjock]

Its good to explore all avenues, remember he served 12 years imagine twelve years in prison everyday and every night  also imagine the girls family he�s out of jail their daughter is rotting in the ground and she�s gone forever they will never go to her wedding or cuddle her first child. He will properly get married have kids he might even kill again. Lets face it he killed because she dumped him, if we all done that half the world would be dead he should stay in jail. 

[Didwot]

The criminal justice system should be designed to fulfil three objectives.
1. To punish the offender
2. To refrom the offender and stop him from reoffending
3. To proctect society.
These three objectives have to be balanced against one another.
The easy answer would be to lock all offenders up for ever, whatever their crimes, but we are a civilised society, and this means that we can show compassion to those who err.
I accept that with some offenders it is a long shot to hope that they may be reformed, but thay are only the products of their background which in turn is part of our society, and we owe it to them to try. I agree that murder is a dreadful crime (and there are other dreadful crimes as well), but that is no reason not to hope, and to try to reform the offender.
I will get off my soap box now.

[mike1222]

Didwot, if you fulfil your first and last objectives you don't have to bother about the second one!

Accepting that there are crimes of passion that cannot be legislated for, the bottom line is that if the deterrent is strong enough it works!!

I assume from your "bleeding heart" sentiments that you have never had to work with or come into contact with any of these poor darlings who have had bad upbringings and have "been forced" into committing crimes such as burgling private houses and mugging old aged pensioners just so they can survive.  To be a bit realistic, most of these offenders are incorrigible and will continue to offend as the deterrents in this "civilised" country of ours are so weak.

I will now get off my soapbox as well! 

[wellhungjock]

On the three points you mention Didwot I agree with you however when it comes to murderers it is different altogether they can�t be released just to give warders an easy time, the point oneeyedvic made. I think their future should have some input from the victim�s family; the last thing anyone would want is to see the person that murdered one of your relatives walking around the neighborhood. Most sentences handed down by out of touch judges do not fit the crimes committed. I don�t know the circumstances of this particular crime but the sentence of twelve years seems far too short.

[jno]

mike1222, I have no statistics whatever to support this view but as I understand it almost all muggers and burglars give it up in their late 20s. They just seem to grow up. There aren't many career criminals older than that (I'm not saying there are none at all). If that's the case, better have them out in society making a useful contribution, eg to my pension, rather than rotting away forever at my expense.

Murderers are a different matter, of course: almost none of them do it for a living. But much as I sympathise with people who will never hold their grandchildren etc, remember that this can happen to anyone who loses a child - even though murder may not be involved. My guess is that those whose children have been murdered must just cope with it the same way as those whose children have died of cancer, say. If they spend their days consumed with hate for those responsible, they're ruining their own lives. Sh*t happens; we should all learn to deal with it, however hard this may seem, because it's better for us.

[mike1222]

jno, Even if your unsupported view were true, what you are saying is that we should be patient with these burglars and muggers for about ten years (that is assuming that they start  their offending in their late teens and your supposition that they give it all up in their late twenties is correct) because they will then become good citizens.

In real life very few of these people ever become contributors to society - they are usually takers. So if you were to rely on them to help pay for your pension prepare yourself for a very poor old age!!!

As I have said, if the deterrent is strong enough it works!

[Oneeyedvic]

Mike - have you ever visited the United States - Is there no crime there (where the death penalty is still allowed in most States)?
Not sure that there is a bigger deterrent than the death penalty