News2 mins ago
Would this be allowed to happen in the UK?
16 Answers
http://www.telegraph....es-ethnic-pupils.html
It would seem that due to the huge influx of immigrants into Norway some parents are getting concerned about their children not mixing with children of their own cultural background.
A comment from a Telegraph reader:
/// There is nothing racist or unnatural about wanting to be with those who share the same cultural background or origins-and indeed no one seems to find it as problem unless it is those of the palest European countries wanting to do it. ///
It would seem that due to the huge influx of immigrants into Norway some parents are getting concerned about their children not mixing with children of their own cultural background.
A comment from a Telegraph reader:
/// There is nothing racist or unnatural about wanting to be with those who share the same cultural background or origins-and indeed no one seems to find it as problem unless it is those of the palest European countries wanting to do it. ///
Answers
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As many as three, rov?
There are primary school classes in parts of London (and a number of other towns and cities) where 100% of children are from "ethnic minorities" ( a term which, at least in those parts, is a misnomer).
It does seem a little disingenuous to suggest that, in wanting to keep their children amongst those of their own race, white people are accused of practicing apartheid, but when other races do the same they are merely maintaining their cultural background and heritage.
There are primary school classes in parts of London (and a number of other towns and cities) where 100% of children are from "ethnic minorities" ( a term which, at least in those parts, is a misnomer).
It does seem a little disingenuous to suggest that, in wanting to keep their children amongst those of their own race, white people are accused of practicing apartheid, but when other races do the same they are merely maintaining their cultural background and heritage.
"but when other races do the same they are merely maintaining their cultural background and heritage"
<once again - race card>
I (unlike some on AB) grew up in a very VERY racially mixed part of London. We had black, white, Asian and South East Asian kids running around together playing British bulldog, knock down ginger and International bulldog (which was like a more violent version of British Bulldog).
Kids don't give a flying fig about the racial background of their mates. That nonsense comes from their stupid, bigoted, blinkered, under-educated oxygen thieving parents.
You leave kids to their own devices, and they will form social groups based on mutual interest rather than racial background.
<once again - race card>
I (unlike some on AB) grew up in a very VERY racially mixed part of London. We had black, white, Asian and South East Asian kids running around together playing British bulldog, knock down ginger and International bulldog (which was like a more violent version of British Bulldog).
Kids don't give a flying fig about the racial background of their mates. That nonsense comes from their stupid, bigoted, blinkered, under-educated oxygen thieving parents.
You leave kids to their own devices, and they will form social groups based on mutual interest rather than racial background.
So multiculturalism means that anyone brought up in "their own" culture must diversify and take on a slice of everyone else's culture...breaking down their own? I don't think too many cultures would aspire to that....I think getting along is fine but imo we each have our own culture and there's nothing wrong with that as long as we can preserve it alongside a multicultural society. Can this be possible though?
daisya
It is most certainly possible. I've seen it with my own eyes. I have India (Hindu) mates who throw Christmas parties. I have Muslim mates who have been to civ partnerrship ceremonies...this list goes on and on...
However, what certain right wing zealots don't understand, is that there are certain English cultural traditions which will never be taken up by immigrant communities, simply because there's no interest. If you go outside the large cities, there are literally thousands of ancient traditions/ceremonies, which form part if English culture, which immigrant families will never be exposed to, because there are so few of the immigrant community actually living in the country (as evidenced by Midsomer Murders).
However what IS true is that when you have people from multiple cultures living alongside each other, there's a kind if osmosis that happens - a cross pollination of food, drink, music, clothing etc. Cross cultural influence goes on all the time. It irritates the bigots, but it's unstoppable.
It is most certainly possible. I've seen it with my own eyes. I have India (Hindu) mates who throw Christmas parties. I have Muslim mates who have been to civ partnerrship ceremonies...this list goes on and on...
However, what certain right wing zealots don't understand, is that there are certain English cultural traditions which will never be taken up by immigrant communities, simply because there's no interest. If you go outside the large cities, there are literally thousands of ancient traditions/ceremonies, which form part if English culture, which immigrant families will never be exposed to, because there are so few of the immigrant community actually living in the country (as evidenced by Midsomer Murders).
However what IS true is that when you have people from multiple cultures living alongside each other, there's a kind if osmosis that happens - a cross pollination of food, drink, music, clothing etc. Cross cultural influence goes on all the time. It irritates the bigots, but it's unstoppable.
I can see your meaning sp but when the "mixing" stops, each behind closed doors everyone reverts back to their own culture. I have seen that too with people I know, there is tolerance for sure in a lot of quarters but everyone one of us stick with our own cultural background/people and even more so when knowledge of each culture can only be understood by those of like kind. IMO it's a natural thing.
daisya - I can see your point, but rather than a rejection of an alien culture, what happens behind one's closed doors is a re-embracement of one's own culture.
A crafter who lives on a small farm a few miles outside Inverness will deport himself (culturally) completely differently from an electrician from Basingstoke - but it doesn't necessarily mean that either dismiss the culture of the other.
A crafter who lives on a small farm a few miles outside Inverness will deport himself (culturally) completely differently from an electrician from Basingstoke - but it doesn't necessarily mean that either dismiss the culture of the other.
sp1814
Ignoring your usual abusive text, 'right wing zealots' 'It irritates the bigots'
But then only certain groups have the sole right to be protected from abuse.
/// However what IS true is that when you have people from multiple cultures living alongside each other, there's a kind if osmosis that happens - a cross pollination of food, drink, music, clothing etc. Cross cultural influence goes on all the time. ///
Not true, take for example the Albert Hall which is in the centre of the most diverse multi cultural city of the world, yet I see very few black or Asian people among the audience, when the 'Proms' are performed there.
Ignoring your usual abusive text, 'right wing zealots' 'It irritates the bigots'
But then only certain groups have the sole right to be protected from abuse.
/// However what IS true is that when you have people from multiple cultures living alongside each other, there's a kind if osmosis that happens - a cross pollination of food, drink, music, clothing etc. Cross cultural influence goes on all the time. ///
Not true, take for example the Albert Hall which is in the centre of the most diverse multi cultural city of the world, yet I see very few black or Asian people among the audience, when the 'Proms' are performed there.
Everyone - take a moment to think about the Proms and the point that has just been raised.
Can everyone see the same thing I can? Can everyone see that the Proms is attended by middle class people? That no-one from council estates goes to the Proms?
Why is it that some people view live purely on racial grounds? Why is it that some people don't get it?
Take a look at the crowds who go to see Arsenal playing on a Saturday. Groups of black, white and Asians (and mixed groups) - all of whom have a common cultural need - to express their hatred of Spurs supporters.
This is what right wing bigots hate - the proof that there are millions of people who simply want to get along and have no interest in the racist cobblers espoused by a very small minority.
Can everyone see the same thing I can? Can everyone see that the Proms is attended by middle class people? That no-one from council estates goes to the Proms?
Why is it that some people view live purely on racial grounds? Why is it that some people don't get it?
Take a look at the crowds who go to see Arsenal playing on a Saturday. Groups of black, white and Asians (and mixed groups) - all of whom have a common cultural need - to express their hatred of Spurs supporters.
This is what right wing bigots hate - the proof that there are millions of people who simply want to get along and have no interest in the racist cobblers espoused by a very small minority.
sp1814
When you stated :
/// However what IS true is that when you have people from multiple cultures living alongside each other, there's a kind if osmosis that happens - a cross pollination of food, drink, music, clothing etc. Cross cultural influence goes on all the time. ///
You didn't say anything about what class of people, that were living alongside each other, had to belong to.
That is why I used the 'Proms' as an example of where they don't gel together.
When you stated :
/// However what IS true is that when you have people from multiple cultures living alongside each other, there's a kind if osmosis that happens - a cross pollination of food, drink, music, clothing etc. Cross cultural influence goes on all the time. ///
You didn't say anything about what class of people, that were living alongside each other, had to belong to.
That is why I used the 'Proms' as an example of where they don't gel together.
There are plenty of black and Asian people among the middle classes, sp. They don't all live in inner city council estates in the same way that not all whites live in mansions or leafy suburbs. The fact is that the Proms are not part of the culture of most ethnic minorities. It has nothing to do with class. They have no interest in such events because they are not part of their culture and they are not inclined to make them so.
Football is a different matter. It is played and watched throughout the world. Travel to India and you will find that, so long as there is no cricket to watch, youngsters will be watching Chelsea vs Manchester United on their satellite TV. Those who travel to the UK will obviously continue that interest.
There is no reason why those from ethnic minorities should take an interest in the Proms. Similarly there is no reason for English people to take any interest in Diwali. In the UK we do not have a multicultural society. We have a collection of different cultures existing in the same place. Indeed I would argue that the term is contradictory. From my dictionary, the definition of “culture”:
“the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life} shared by people in a place or time”
Note in the first definition the singular “racial, religious or social group”. Not a multitude of different groups brought together. Note in the second definition “...shared by people in a place or time”. I cannot imagine that anybody might support the argument that the Bangladeshis in, say, Tower Hamlets share “the characteristic features of [their] everyday existence” with any of the few people of non-Bangladeshi origin who live in that area. They live completely different lives by completely different cultures, not shared at all.
As an admittedly very racist comedian once quipped, “Just because a dog is born in a stable, it does not make him a horse”. He said it to get a cheap laugh, but I think he had a point.
Football is a different matter. It is played and watched throughout the world. Travel to India and you will find that, so long as there is no cricket to watch, youngsters will be watching Chelsea vs Manchester United on their satellite TV. Those who travel to the UK will obviously continue that interest.
There is no reason why those from ethnic minorities should take an interest in the Proms. Similarly there is no reason for English people to take any interest in Diwali. In the UK we do not have a multicultural society. We have a collection of different cultures existing in the same place. Indeed I would argue that the term is contradictory. From my dictionary, the definition of “culture”:
“the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life} shared by people in a place or time”
Note in the first definition the singular “racial, religious or social group”. Not a multitude of different groups brought together. Note in the second definition “...shared by people in a place or time”. I cannot imagine that anybody might support the argument that the Bangladeshis in, say, Tower Hamlets share “the characteristic features of [their] everyday existence” with any of the few people of non-Bangladeshi origin who live in that area. They live completely different lives by completely different cultures, not shared at all.
As an admittedly very racist comedian once quipped, “Just because a dog is born in a stable, it does not make him a horse”. He said it to get a cheap laugh, but I think he had a point.
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