News5 mins ago
Widow dies after Thursday's bag snatch.
56 Answers
http://www.dailymail....e-husbands-ashes.html
Yet another example of how broken today's society is, here is an elderly lady who has died trying to hold onto her late husband's ashes, who had died 17 years previously.
It is reported that two teenagers age 14 & 17 have been arrested on suspicion of robbery, if it is proven that it was these two who are also responsible for her death, then they should named and put away for many years.
Yet another example of how broken today's society is, here is an elderly lady who has died trying to hold onto her late husband's ashes, who had died 17 years previously.
It is reported that two teenagers age 14 & 17 have been arrested on suspicion of robbery, if it is proven that it was these two who are also responsible for her death, then they should named and put away for many years.
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they may be named, but unless they have got form, unlikely to go away, and even if they go to a young offenders prison, then it won't be for long.
Any worse than the heartless burglars who broke into a families home, and took christmas gifts for the children. Not sure what else they took, but it's the fact they have no moral compass, and no parents telling them to behave.
Any worse than the heartless burglars who broke into a families home, and took christmas gifts for the children. Not sure what else they took, but it's the fact they have no moral compass, and no parents telling them to behave.
Yes, plenty of awful crimes are commited every day and although both you and the newspapers rightly keep us informed of the 'worst' ones, unfortunately the focus always seems to be on the specifics of the act and how horrible they are and not on why the crime was commited in the first place.
If I understand the spirit of your post correctly it would seem that you would not be quite so outraged if they had robbed a bag that did not contain ashes, or if the lady was only badly injured and not killed. These are not the issues, the robbers did not know the bag had ashes in, nor would they have cared, they may not have meant to kill the lady, or they may have done. The point is why there are people out on the streets committing these crimes - and not thinking of the perpatrators as human beings, wringing hands and writing headlines at every crime is not going to stop it.
Please answer this question AOG... Why do you think they did that crime? And how, if time could be turned back, could society prevent that crime? These are the issues, not what was in the handbag.
If I understand the spirit of your post correctly it would seem that you would not be quite so outraged if they had robbed a bag that did not contain ashes, or if the lady was only badly injured and not killed. These are not the issues, the robbers did not know the bag had ashes in, nor would they have cared, they may not have meant to kill the lady, or they may have done. The point is why there are people out on the streets committing these crimes - and not thinking of the perpatrators as human beings, wringing hands and writing headlines at every crime is not going to stop it.
Please answer this question AOG... Why do you think they did that crime? And how, if time could be turned back, could society prevent that crime? These are the issues, not what was in the handbag.
it should cause outrage no matter the contents of the bag, and you are asking him to analyse why two lads committed this crime, why? Poor upbringing, no dad, excluded from school, the list is endless. People commit crimes, like this and plenty more, because they are feckless, greedy, stupid, arrogant, and downright nasty, why over analyse something that has resulted in an elderly woman's death. I am not sticking up for AOG, but isn't it time we stopped the psychobabble that is often produced as to why people commit crimes. We have been burgled, i have had wallet nicked, not once but twice, and sundry other things, and not once did i wonder why they did it, i was more intent on bashing the living daylights out of them had i known who they were.
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It is a shocking business, but it is a case where you have to look at MOTIVATION; they robbed an elderly lady - terrible! but they in no way intended for her to die, this was simply unfortunate. It seems no weapons were involved, which would have made it a different matter, they grabbed a bag, for which they should be punished, but "put away for many years", would be excessive.
i"t should cause outrage no matter the contents of the bag, and you are asking him to analyse why two lads committed this crime, why?"
So we can try to figure out ways to stop it. Billym is right - simply observing dreadful acts and being angry about them is gratifying, but it isn't useful. If we care about having a society where this doesn't happen, then we need to analyse why it does - that's why it's important.
"People commit crimes, like this and plenty more, because they are feckless, greedy, stupid, arrogant, and downright nasty"
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It is perfectly possibly for otherwise ordinary people to do terrible things in the right circumstances just as it's possible for them to do it out of malice or greed - to pretend otherwise would be childish, dangerous, and incredibly stupid. That's why people care about researching this and asking questions about it - trying to figure out something in more detail so we can do something about it. IT's also why, as members of the public, should care, and why attitudes like the ones you've expressed hinder society's progress and should be challenged for it.
So we can try to figure out ways to stop it. Billym is right - simply observing dreadful acts and being angry about them is gratifying, but it isn't useful. If we care about having a society where this doesn't happen, then we need to analyse why it does - that's why it's important.
"People commit crimes, like this and plenty more, because they are feckless, greedy, stupid, arrogant, and downright nasty"
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It is perfectly possibly for otherwise ordinary people to do terrible things in the right circumstances just as it's possible for them to do it out of malice or greed - to pretend otherwise would be childish, dangerous, and incredibly stupid. That's why people care about researching this and asking questions about it - trying to figure out something in more detail so we can do something about it. IT's also why, as members of the public, should care, and why attitudes like the ones you've expressed hinder society's progress and should be challenged for it.
The reason why I ask for analysis is not to spout 'psychobabble' or to make excuses for criminals - frankly those kids are old enough to know what they were doing and if somebody decided to put them in hospital or worse for this crime then that's all good in my book.
However, what analysis and wider action at least tries to do is to prevent that little old lady who is currently at bingo (or maybe any one of us at some point in the future) winding up dead in the gutter again.
But judging by this post and some of the responses I guess some people would rather that happen so they get another headline and who cares about actually stopping it??
However, what analysis and wider action at least tries to do is to prevent that little old lady who is currently at bingo (or maybe any one of us at some point in the future) winding up dead in the gutter again.
But judging by this post and some of the responses I guess some people would rather that happen so they get another headline and who cares about actually stopping it??
ll_billym
What is it about your type of person?
This is a yet another brutal crime committed by a couple of low-life, it is not only me or certain newspapers who are reporting this story, it is also among the national headlines of TV and Radio news casts.
Are you saying that I or anyone else for that matter, should not have entered this dreadful story on the news section simply because it spoils the view out of your rose tinted specs?
Of course I wouldn't have been as outraged if the victim had been a young woman and not an old lady and the fact that the lady's late husbands ashes had not been in her bag or she had not died,
perhaps one could also say, (since I didn't know the lady personally) I wouldn't have been so outraged as I would have been if I had known her.
All these additional circumstances made what would have been an everyday bag-snatch into a horrendous headline murder story
In answer to your questions:
/// Why do you think they did that crime? ///
How the heck do I know why these sub-species commit these crimes?
/// if time could be turned back, could society prevent that
crime? ///
Yes, the parents of those who committed this crime, could have employed safe sex.
/// These are the issues, not what was in the handbag. ///
No the issues are, an old lady has been killed by some cretins who have also taken her handbag that contains the ashes of her late husband, and the family not only want the culprits brought to book but also the return of the ashes, these are the issues.
What is it about your type of person?
This is a yet another brutal crime committed by a couple of low-life, it is not only me or certain newspapers who are reporting this story, it is also among the national headlines of TV and Radio news casts.
Are you saying that I or anyone else for that matter, should not have entered this dreadful story on the news section simply because it spoils the view out of your rose tinted specs?
Of course I wouldn't have been as outraged if the victim had been a young woman and not an old lady and the fact that the lady's late husbands ashes had not been in her bag or she had not died,
perhaps one could also say, (since I didn't know the lady personally) I wouldn't have been so outraged as I would have been if I had known her.
All these additional circumstances made what would have been an everyday bag-snatch into a horrendous headline murder story
In answer to your questions:
/// Why do you think they did that crime? ///
How the heck do I know why these sub-species commit these crimes?
/// if time could be turned back, could society prevent that
crime? ///
Yes, the parents of those who committed this crime, could have employed safe sex.
/// These are the issues, not what was in the handbag. ///
No the issues are, an old lady has been killed by some cretins who have also taken her handbag that contains the ashes of her late husband, and the family not only want the culprits brought to book but also the return of the ashes, these are the issues.
Khandro
/// It seems no weapons were involved, which would have made it a different matter, ///
How do you come to this questionable reasoning?
A person has been killed, does it matter if a weapon was used or not?
/// they grabbed a bag, for which they should be punished, but "put away for many years", would be excessive. ///
Once again what about the matter of the dead old lady?
Yes they should be punished, I quite agree, but where we disagree is the fact that, I still maintain they should be "put away for many years"
/// It seems no weapons were involved, which would have made it a different matter, ///
How do you come to this questionable reasoning?
A person has been killed, does it matter if a weapon was used or not?
/// they grabbed a bag, for which they should be punished, but "put away for many years", would be excessive. ///
Once again what about the matter of the dead old lady?
Yes they should be punished, I quite agree, but where we disagree is the fact that, I still maintain they should be "put away for many years"
@AOG, There exists within the law, a listing of crimes in an order of severity; 'Armed Robbery' is considered rightly, to be a worse offence than 'Robbery', just as 'Breaking and Entering' is worse than 'Entering'. Had the boys been brandishing weapons it would show intent to harm as well as rob, in this case snatching a bag, which I think is a horrible crime and warrants punishment, but not on the magnitude you suggest.
Thanks for answering AOG.
///Are you saying that I or anyone else for that matter, should not have entered this dreadful story on the news section simply because it spoils the view out of your rose tinted specs? ///
Not at all, it happened, so report it. My point is that when the 'discussion' is simply about the details of what is in handbags and how many years the perpatrators should be put away for shows a total disinterest in even trying to prevent future headlines. Frankly AOG, you are the one with rose tinted specs here in not seeing the criminals as human beings, preferring to look down at another species rather than realising that their motivations and acts are based on their personal history and the society they live in - the same one you live in - and not some pre-programmed instict to kill old grannies.
AOG: ///How the heck do I know why these sub-species commit these crimes?///
I don't expect you to know why, just to have a little think about it as it may be the same reason the next old granny gets killed, so maybe something could be done to prevent it.
/// Yes, the parents of those who committed this crime, could have employed safe sex. ///
Sorry but I think you may be a little too late with that suggestion. Lets just wait for the next old granny to be killed then wish that their parents had had safe sex too. And the one after that.
/// the family not only want the culprits brought to book but also the return of the ashes, these are the issues. ///
Fine, kill the perpatrators and find the ashes - this will not stop the next old granny getting killed but then again you have just said that the next old granny getting killed is not an issue.
///What a dreadful thing to say, I don't know about looking into the heads of these killers, I think you should question your own reasoning's first. ///
Yes, it is shocking isn't it that the logical conclusion drawn from people like yourself not caring about the bigger picture of why crimes were commited is that they have no interest in preventing future crimes.
///Are you saying that I or anyone else for that matter, should not have entered this dreadful story on the news section simply because it spoils the view out of your rose tinted specs? ///
Not at all, it happened, so report it. My point is that when the 'discussion' is simply about the details of what is in handbags and how many years the perpatrators should be put away for shows a total disinterest in even trying to prevent future headlines. Frankly AOG, you are the one with rose tinted specs here in not seeing the criminals as human beings, preferring to look down at another species rather than realising that their motivations and acts are based on their personal history and the society they live in - the same one you live in - and not some pre-programmed instict to kill old grannies.
AOG: ///How the heck do I know why these sub-species commit these crimes?///
I don't expect you to know why, just to have a little think about it as it may be the same reason the next old granny gets killed, so maybe something could be done to prevent it.
/// Yes, the parents of those who committed this crime, could have employed safe sex. ///
Sorry but I think you may be a little too late with that suggestion. Lets just wait for the next old granny to be killed then wish that their parents had had safe sex too. And the one after that.
/// the family not only want the culprits brought to book but also the return of the ashes, these are the issues. ///
Fine, kill the perpatrators and find the ashes - this will not stop the next old granny getting killed but then again you have just said that the next old granny getting killed is not an issue.
///What a dreadful thing to say, I don't know about looking into the heads of these killers, I think you should question your own reasoning's first. ///
Yes, it is shocking isn't it that the logical conclusion drawn from people like yourself not caring about the bigger picture of why crimes were commited is that they have no interest in preventing future crimes.
ll_billym
Well I have read much from 'liberal thinkers' such as yourself in my time, but yours takes the biscuit.
Incidentally, it would be interesting to know what you, yourself are doing towards preventing the next 'granny' from being murdered?
In the meantime I will put my 'thinking-cap' on, and if I come up with an answer, I will rush myself off to the nearest police station (if they are open) and tell them what I have come up with, to prevent another such crime being committed.
Well I have read much from 'liberal thinkers' such as yourself in my time, but yours takes the biscuit.
Incidentally, it would be interesting to know what you, yourself are doing towards preventing the next 'granny' from being murdered?
In the meantime I will put my 'thinking-cap' on, and if I come up with an answer, I will rush myself off to the nearest police station (if they are open) and tell them what I have come up with, to prevent another such crime being committed.
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