Christopher Hitchens dies

[Kromovaracun]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16212418

I've never agreed with everything Hitchens said/wrote, but love or hate him, it's surely pretty hard to deny his formidable intellect and remarkable eloquence made him one of the most interesting commentators around. And 'interesting' is doubtless how he would have liked to be remembered.

RIP Hitch.

[Apologies - I realise I have an annoying habit of posting questions that aren't really questions. Sorry...]

[Ric.ror]

He was a drink sodden poppinjay according to George Galloway and I bet he secretly loved that
RIP

[Kromovaracun]

@Ric.

I can't remember who he was arguing with, but at one of his theism debates, his opponent began by expressing his honour to be debating Hitchens and his respect for Hitchens' wit and eloquence.

Hitchens drily responded, 'Well, the night is young.'

[tommy-h]

loved his humour,sadly missed,RIP.also sadly missed at the bar

[Brenden]

Just pleased he made amends with his brother Peter who is also an author and columnist.

[jno]

Kromovaracun, here's a little obituary

http://www.guardian.c...pher-hitchens-atheism

"his ability in discussions to adopt a counter-intuitive position and argue it with vigour even when it became obvious he believed the opposite."

As I've already suggested, he was just a professional arguer. Any barrister does this, though with less chance of getting a Vanity Fair contract and his name in lights.

[Snafu03]

if you said a blue car was blue, he'd say it was red - and put together a well worded argument that'd convince anyone who gets 'turned on' by intellect.

just because your clever doesnt mean your right.

[craft1948]

I just found him objectionable...............

[elgreco]

Thanks for the info Kromovarcun

[Kromovaracun]

@birdie - I don't think that's quite the point jno's trying to make. All she's pointing out is that simply 'standing up for what you believe in' isn't necessarily the shining halo it's made out to be, because many people have done so with disastrous consequences. Which is fairly true.

With regards to how it applies to Hitch, I think calling him a 'professional arguer' implies a degree of inconsistency that he didn't have (and would imply insincerity as well). The way he justified his support for the Iraq war, for instance, was very consistent with his other political views and writings; if you consider his particular form/interpretation of Marxism, then his support for the West and for globalization is pretty consistent. Admittedly, I'm just going on his public writings here - he may well have delighted in playing devil's advocate just to annoy people in private (the author of your article actually met him after all and I never have). But I think if he were doing that as a professional writer, his writings would be a lot more inconsistent and betray more insincerity than they actually do.

Mind you, that's not to say he didn't like annoying people or making them angry. He certainly enjoyed that.

[jno]

Kromovaracun is correct. Oratory is not a wonderful thing in itself; nor is burning sincerity. Hitler, since you mention it, had both qualities in spades, and people thought they made him a great man. Remember, Hitler *didn't* kill millions of people. His eloquence led others to do it for him.

It's what you do with such qualities that counts. We know what Hitler did with them. What did Hitchens do with them? I've already argued, with supporting quotes from someone who knew him, that actually he wasn't always sincere at all - he just used the oratory for showboating. (I never met him either but have no reason to disbelieve the obituarist.) But I don't find that admirable either.

[Kromovaracun]

"I've already argued, with supporting quotes from someone who knew him, that actually he wasn't always sincere at all - he just used the oratory for showboating. "

And I have also argued, using examples, that this isn't evident in his public writings because they are more consistent than they would be if he were just arguing for the sake of arguing, though conceding that he may well have done it in person and certainly enjoyed argument.

[Kromovaracun]

Hitchens used oratory and eloquence in about the only way you can use them - by writing and by debating people who disagreed with him. Given what his skills were, I'm not really sure what you'd rather he did.

[RATTER15]

The best of Christopher Hitchens, watch and learn!!

[jno]

it was not deliberately unpleasant; it was intended, as Kromovaracun understood, to point out that eloquence does not automatically make you good. To prove this, it was necessary to give an example where it did not; which I did.

Kromovaracun, as I said, I can't say from personal experience whether Hitchens was sincere in what he said and wrote. Here's another memoir from someone who knew him; like the other I linked to, it is ambivalent about him. (I find it intriguing that these come from friends rather than from obituarists striving to be impartial.)

http://www.guardian.c...r-hitchens-remembered

I have also seen obituaries arguing that he was consistent in everything all his life. I can only say that to be a supporter George W Bush and Karl Marx, and an opponent of Clinton and Saddam, doesn't seem an obvious marker of consistency.

I do acknowledge your fair point that if you have eloquence you might as well use it.

[jno]

there's no great shortage of evidence that Pol Pot was a good public speaker; you can Google it yourself, but to save yourself some trouble you could look at the third paragraph here:

http://www.massviolence.org/Saloth-Sar-Pol-Pot

or here:

http://www.lotsofessa...iewpaper/1702080.html

or the eighth paragraph here:

http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/trial_es.htm

And could you stop the personal attacks on me, please? Kromovaracun, whose thread this is, has been courteous and thoughtful throughout, as he always is. You should do the same.

[RATTER15]

I learned a lot from Christopher Hitchens, if I had his level of intelligence, knowledge and skill in debating, I would be very proud to pick up where he left off and I too would "own" any stage I put foot on.

An amazing man!! comparing him to Hitler is just NASTY!!!!