Should the hunting ban be repealed?

[LazyGun]

Hope everyone had a great xmas, and Santa was generous ;)

Not a fan of hunting with hounds myself - seems barbaric to me - but the current legislation is pretty toothless. Should the law be repealed?

http://www.guardian.c...-hunts-mission-repeal

[jake-the-peg]

Well personally I'm one of (what seems) a small minority that doesn't really care either way!

But I thought Cameron had promissed a free vote - seems to have gone mighty quiet on that.

I suspect it's a devisive issue in the Tory party - probably plays badly to young middle class female voters

[starone]

Foxes are a pest so something should be done to keep down the numbers. However, I would think the best way to do this would be with a gamekeeper and a shotgun not chasing them over fields with a pack of dogs. Doesn't seem right to me as you say - it's barbaric. Especially the thought of them being torn apart by the dogs. A quick clean kill with a gun wielded by an expert is far better.

[ChuckFickens]

A shotgun is not the best way to deal with foxes by a long way, you'd be very likely a wound the fox but not kill it.

You need at least a .223 rifle for a clean (humane) kill.

[DTCwordfan]

town versus country on this one, I bet. Living where I do, I know which camp I am in.

not all who shoot foxes are crack-shots therefore not much difference between a dog o a bullet injuring a fox. However, they are pests to farmers as are badgers, - look at the issue of bovine TB and how it is penalising the beef and milk business......a significant cost....

[starone]

Well, I'm not much good with guns chuck, although my husband liked shooting at targets so you are probably right, and I expect rabbits are much more of a pest although no-one says anything about getting rid of them. If the foxes got rid of the rabbits instead of taking the farmers geese perhaps they would be less of a pest.

[DTCwordfan]

Actually a surplus of foxes really affects the bird population - Holland has a massive issue with this now since they banned hunting and many nest areas have been eliminated/badly affected.

On the gun issue, the evidence is that a fox is more likely to suffer far more from shot/bullet wounds and will take far longer to dies than by dogs.......it is the savagery of the latter which gets a lot of folk distressed but then they rarely see a fox injured and folk will not dig them from their setts, which used to go on with a hunt.

[ChuckFickens]

"and I expect rabbits are much more of a pest although no-one says anything about getting rid of them"

£3 per rabbit from the local farmers round here (and then another £5 from a butchers for the body if it's a clean kill and been drained properly) and it's not hard to get well over 100 in a couple of hours...

I'm against hunting with dogs BTW, being ripped to pieces by a pack of dogs after being chased to exhaustion is not a humane way of killing a fox IMO, a head shot with a rifle kills instantly. I'm sure most "hunters" use the we are controlling a pest reason as an excuse for them to have some "sport" (I use that term very loosely).

[Hopkirk]

If they wanteda quick kill they would choose fast dogs.

Instead they choose to use ones which are relatively slow but with immense stamina. It makes for a good long chase.
It also prolongs the terror for the hunted animal, but they don't care about that.

Rather than repeal the law, they should strengthen it.

[jno]

if the law was genuinely toothless, nobody would care if it was repealed or not.

At the moment it criminalises the squire classes, which can only be a good thing. Lets them know what it feels like to be young, black or working-class.

I gather Tony Blair regretted implementing the ban, so that's another thing in its favour.

[DTCwordfan]

The wound rate by shooting is some 20 to 25% at least and likely to increase as one of the factors is the decreasing power of guns being used as there is a risk that missed bullets can kill from one to two miles if they don't find the ground ......source BMJ vet records/MFHA and others - one other factor is that shooting is often at night to get at the largesse of the foxes and that could add significantly to the miss/wounded rate.

Interesting that Lord Burns concluded: “We are less confident that the use of shotguns particularly in daylight, is preferable (to hunting) from a welfare perspective”.

[Prudie]

I've been anti fox-hunting all my life but must admit I've waivered now I'm older. The real shame is the argument should really be based on whether or not it's the most humane and efficient means of controlling foxes but it never is - it's always clouded by this issue that only country toffs and gout-ridden tories do it which is a total myth.

[DTCwordfan]

Hear hear, Prudie.....

[237SJ]

Hunting with dogs is cruel. Most farmers I know (they don`t need gamekeepers, they do it themselves) are crack shots with a gun and are far more efficient at keeping the fox (and deer) population down than hunts. I don`t think it should be replealed. It`s a shame that town councils don`t get their act together and get someone to dispatch the growing population of town foxes though.

[DTCwordfan]

How in towns 237SJ - poisioning and gintraps are not very efficient and carry signifcant risk to humans......

[ChuckFickens]

Yep, because you can of course trust The Masters of Foxhounds Association to be impartial on this!

Wounding, rather than killing is mainly due to people that think a shotgun, or worse, an air rifle is an appropriate weapon to kill a fox with, shotguns are not effective over about 40yards and will just result in the target being spattered with shot (even on a heavily choked gun) and no (legal) air rifle has anywhere near enough stopping power for a fox. an appropriate calibre rifle with a halfway skilled person holding it will make a clean kill at upto 200yards all day and everyone I know that shoots has a simple rule of if you can't make a clean shot you don't take the shot.

(also we use military grade night vision on the scopes for night time shooting)

Untrained people with inappropriate weapons should also be banned from hunting foxes.

[DTCwordfan]

agree on your last point, chuck. and that will include a fair number of farmers too.....just because one farms does not make one a good shot.

[237SJ]

DT - gintraps and poisoning are both illegal anyway. They can be shot . It can`t be done near inhabited properties or major roads though. There are plenty of places around here where that can be done.

[Philtaz]

As foxhunting is often referred to as a 'sport', would anyone care to tell me why it isn't in the Olympics?

[ChuckFickens]

"just because one farms does not make one a good shot."

Agree, and it also doesn't mean they are safe with a gun, I've seen some shocking examples of gun safety from farmers round here that would get them thrown straight out of any gun club and they have made me frightened to be anywhere near them when they have a gun!

[Quizmonster]

http://www.guardian.c.../hunting.ruralaffairs
The article linked to is about ten years old, but it rather puts the kybosh on the notion that pest control is...or at any rate, was...the key element in fox-hunting.
If these artificial earths have since been destroyed, I'd imagine that the hunts have taken alternative steps to ensure their 'sport'.
Also, supporters continually claim that the law "isn't working", pointing out that so many hunts still gather support, especially on this day each year. Yes, it is, because they never say that what they are participating in is DRAG hunting, not FOX hunting!