ChatterBank0 min ago
Referendum for Scotland
22 Answers
http://www.dailymail....e-London-strings.html
Some strong words from Mr Salmon, but if he held a referendum and the Scots voted to cut all ties with the rest of the UK, would we sit back and let it take place?
Would it be classed as a civil war?
Would we send in the troops to quell the revolt?
Or perhaps we should play him at his own game and hold a referendum of our own to see if we still wanted the Scots?
Some strong words from Mr Salmon, but if he held a referendum and the Scots voted to cut all ties with the rest of the UK, would we sit back and let it take place?
Would it be classed as a civil war?
Would we send in the troops to quell the revolt?
Or perhaps we should play him at his own game and hold a referendum of our own to see if we still wanted the Scots?
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It would be treason. Salmond to the White Tower and his head off.
What will happen if the Scots vote No - which is highly likely as the silent majority has not yet spoken (see comments from our resident Scot ABers) - and the English, Welsh and N.Irish vote a strong, unequivocal yes.
Very likely a strong vote for yes down here as Plymouth may well get the majority of Faslane moved to the city and secure its future as a major naval dockyard for a few years.
What will happen if the Scots vote No - which is highly likely as the silent majority has not yet spoken (see comments from our resident Scot ABers) - and the English, Welsh and N.Irish vote a strong, unequivocal yes.
Very likely a strong vote for yes down here as Plymouth may well get the majority of Faslane moved to the city and secure its future as a major naval dockyard for a few years.
I was on the original bill team for the first attempt at devolution which died a death as not enough people turned out to vote...I spent most of my waking hours in parliamentary sittings / meetings/travelling up and down the country for nowt !!!! Now we have devolution but I really do not think most Scots want separation nowadays....
He knows he'll probably lose a straight independence yes/no vote so he wants to put other questions on there that people will say yes to.
e.g Do you think we should carry on as we are but get to keep all the oil revenue and be less answerable to Westminster.
That kind of thing. Much easier to say yes to than 'Should Scotland be an independent nation?'.
e.g Do you think we should carry on as we are but get to keep all the oil revenue and be less answerable to Westminster.
That kind of thing. Much easier to say yes to than 'Should Scotland be an independent nation?'.
It was in the SNP's manifesto that they would hold a referendum in the later half of the parliament, so Salmond is only keeeping his promise. Something he is actually building a good reputation for.
Cameron wants to highjack the referendum and stampede it through in the next 18 months so that there is not enought time for the various constitutional questions to be thought through. He is gambling that we will vote No.
If I am not going to be allowed to vote for Devo Max, which I would probably go for, and Cameron limits my options to Independence Yes or No - I'm afraid it will be Yes from me.
On your final question, please feel free to hold your own referendum (good luck getting it). From all the comments on various blogs over the last few days you can't wait to get rid of us.
Cameron wants to highjack the referendum and stampede it through in the next 18 months so that there is not enought time for the various constitutional questions to be thought through. He is gambling that we will vote No.
If I am not going to be allowed to vote for Devo Max, which I would probably go for, and Cameron limits my options to Independence Yes or No - I'm afraid it will be Yes from me.
On your final question, please feel free to hold your own referendum (good luck getting it). From all the comments on various blogs over the last few days you can't wait to get rid of us.
This has been debated at length in another, albeit slightly differently phrased, question a couple of days ago.
The plain legal fact is that, although Mr Salmond may have promised to hold a referendum, the issue of independence is not his to address (unless he is prepared to make a Unilateral Declaration of Independence). The Scotland Act which allowed the establishment of the Scottish Assembly makes it quite clear that the issue of the composition of the United Kingdom is one for the Westminster Parliament only. Mr Salmond and the Scottish Parliament has no more right to suggest that they alone have the ultimate say on Scotland’s future within the United Kingdom than does Surrey County Council have with their county. Constitutionally the United Kingdom is a single entity and decisions on its composition can only be taken by Westminster.
As a result, any referendum the Scottish Assembly may hold without the consent of Westminster will be no more than an opinion poll. Further, the Scottish Parliament may have difficulty holding such a plebiscite as they may not be permitted to use the electoral register to do so.
The plain legal fact is that, although Mr Salmond may have promised to hold a referendum, the issue of independence is not his to address (unless he is prepared to make a Unilateral Declaration of Independence). The Scotland Act which allowed the establishment of the Scottish Assembly makes it quite clear that the issue of the composition of the United Kingdom is one for the Westminster Parliament only. Mr Salmond and the Scottish Parliament has no more right to suggest that they alone have the ultimate say on Scotland’s future within the United Kingdom than does Surrey County Council have with their county. Constitutionally the United Kingdom is a single entity and decisions on its composition can only be taken by Westminster.
As a result, any referendum the Scottish Assembly may hold without the consent of Westminster will be no more than an opinion poll. Further, the Scottish Parliament may have difficulty holding such a plebiscite as they may not be permitted to use the electoral register to do so.
NJ - Constitutionally the UK is made up of four separate Sovereign states. With the majority of seats in the Scottish Parliament the SNP have the right to hold a referendum on independence, however the result will not be binding, only advisory. However Westminster will be in a difficult position if the majority of Scots express a wish for independence and they refuse to accept. What price democracy then eh?
Romaz //From all the comments on various blogs over the last few days you can't wait to get rid of us //
I don't want to get rid of you, I think we should all stick together in the ''United Kingdom'' & fight off the Continental wish to rule us, I would rather have a referendum for us to leave the common market with all its pitfalls.
Ron.
I don't want to get rid of you, I think we should all stick together in the ''United Kingdom'' & fight off the Continental wish to rule us, I would rather have a referendum for us to leave the common market with all its pitfalls.
Ron.
In the unlikley event that Scotland became an independent nation, would they automatically be part of the EU? What currency would they adopt? Would all Scottish service personnel have to leave the British armed forces and join a Scottish force that they could not afford to run?There seems to be too many questions that have not been addressed. Salman is a Nationalist and by definition wants independence at any price. He cares nothing for the welfare of the Scottish people. Independence is the only goal
If its what the Scots want fine. The question I have is will their oil revenues be able to replace all the subsidies they get from the rest of the UK and what happens when the oil runs out. Will our children find a third world country on their doorstep.
Not being rude but how will they survive? On what will the economy be based?
Not being rude but how will they survive? On what will the economy be based?
Sorry. Romaz, but you are mistaken. Have a look at this list of sovereign states affiliated to the United Nations:
http://www.un.org/en/members/#s
You will find the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. You will not find England, Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The United Kingdom is a single sovereign state, a constitutional monarchy with one monarch, one government and one sovereign Parliament. The devolved assemblies (sometimes referred to as “Parliaments”) serving Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are responsible for specific (and limited) devolved powers ceded by the Westminster Parliament. These devolutions are similar in principle to the powers devolved to County Councils and Metropolitan Boroughs.
If you read this Wiki article:
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/United_Kingdom
You will note in particular: “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom, the UK or Britain) is a sovereign state...” and “The United Kingdom is a unitary state governed under a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary system, with its seat of government in the capital city of London. It is a country in its own right...”
If you look at this Wiki article on Scotland:
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Scotland
You will see “The Kingdom of Scotland emerged as an independent sovereign state in the Early Middle Ages and continued to exist until 1707...[the date of the Act of Union].
As far as the Scottish Parliament’s powers are concerned, these are governed by the Scotland Act, 1998 (a UK Act passed by the Westminster Parliament):
http://www.legislatio...kpga/1998/46/contents
You will see Section 37 determines that the 1707 Act of Union is applicable to the 1998 Act and if you read through the remaining 131 sections you will find no provision for the Scottish Parliament having any powers to alter the State of the Union.
I don’t know how much clearer I can demonstrate my contention.
http://www.un.org/en/members/#s
You will find the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. You will not find England, Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The United Kingdom is a single sovereign state, a constitutional monarchy with one monarch, one government and one sovereign Parliament. The devolved assemblies (sometimes referred to as “Parliaments”) serving Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are responsible for specific (and limited) devolved powers ceded by the Westminster Parliament. These devolutions are similar in principle to the powers devolved to County Councils and Metropolitan Boroughs.
If you read this Wiki article:
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/United_Kingdom
You will note in particular: “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom, the UK or Britain) is a sovereign state...” and “The United Kingdom is a unitary state governed under a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary system, with its seat of government in the capital city of London. It is a country in its own right...”
If you look at this Wiki article on Scotland:
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Scotland
You will see “The Kingdom of Scotland emerged as an independent sovereign state in the Early Middle Ages and continued to exist until 1707...[the date of the Act of Union].
As far as the Scottish Parliament’s powers are concerned, these are governed by the Scotland Act, 1998 (a UK Act passed by the Westminster Parliament):
http://www.legislatio...kpga/1998/46/contents
You will see Section 37 determines that the 1707 Act of Union is applicable to the 1998 Act and if you read through the remaining 131 sections you will find no provision for the Scottish Parliament having any powers to alter the State of the Union.
I don’t know how much clearer I can demonstrate my contention.
NJ - I concede your point regarding Sovereign states, however I believe it is still within the SNP's remit to hold a referendum, in fact it was part of the SNP's manifesto at the last election, so Westminster should have intervened then. As I have said before without Westmnister's approval any result would not be binding, however they would be on very sticky ground if they did not act on the result. That's why I think they are trying to derail it at this point. A very risky strategy for the Tories, because if all goes well it would be nice to part and stay friends, but if the majority of people living in Scotland vote for independence then by hook, by crook or by blue paint that's what we will get.
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