do the tories ever learn? in The AnswerBank: News

And that's pretty-well exactly what I said in the very first answer on this thread, Welshlibranr. Full circle!

You are right Quiz and Welsh we should have built more social housing but why only blame the Tories . We had 13 years of a strong Labour government to do something about it and they failed to do so. They also failed to regulate the mortgage market which resulted in the boom in house prices , which went through the roof and was the greatest cause of the present currency crash .
Quiz #nutty Housing Minister actually believes they are in this position because of the last Labour government!#
Your nutty minister was not blaming Labour for the social housing problem but rather for their spendthrift ways at a time when we were already in the recession.

Quizmonster

Modeller, quote from the link...
"Mr Shapps will say: 'New home buyers will have the satisfaction of knowing that for each property sold, we'll be aiming to REPLACE IT with a new affordable home for the record numbers left languishing on Labour's housing waiting lists. It's a win/win that backs aspirational council tenants whilst dealing with the legacy of Labour's record waiting lists."

The guy's quote refers TWICE to what he calls "Labour's (record) waiting lists." What the heck has the existence of such waiting lists got to do with "spendthrift ways"? People are waiting "'cos wot they need ain't there no more" and it stopped being there because of Thatcher, nobody else!
The absolutely key point remains the inescapable fact that Thatcher did NOT include any form of REPLACE IT scheme which even a demented five year-old could have seen as essential if future waiting-lists were to be avoided!
As one with right-wing leanings, Modeller, you - like most of your ilk - refuse ro recognise that the casino bankers (Tory funders to a man) were even more responsible for the crash. Gordon Brown never suggested to Northern Rock that they should buy American sub-prime mortgage debt, did he? Nor was he driving Fred The Shred to try to bring just about every other bank under his 'umbrella'.
You people really ought to stop this 'legacy' nonsense sooner rather than later, unless you start to apply equal blame to EVERYONE reponsible.

modeller

Quiz #You people really ought to stop this 'legacy' nonsense sooner rather than later, unless you start to apply equal blame to EVERYONE responsible.#

You are in danger of losing your left wing credentials by admitting EVERYONE is responsible . That is precisely what I said " W

modeller

cont. "Why only blame the Tories "
W

modeller

cont : Sorry for the conts. The PC keeps submitting it.
However with regards to my spendthrift remarks . Gordon Brown spent billions AFTER the crash in the worlds markets.
With regards to Maggie Thatcher she brought our national debt down to the lowest point since WW I. and under Labour it rose to the highest level in the developed world . We still have a debt higher than Greece as a proportion of GDP. If we were in the EURO we would be in default.
I don't think my friends would agree with your # As one with right-wing leanings, Modeller, # especially as I was once a Labour Party agent and my father was a shop steward. I suppose it depends where you start from.
I think Maggie did a lot of good when this country was run by the unions but she was wrong on the Poll Tax and she should never have allowed special houses like OAPs bungalows and specially adapted homes for the disabled to
to sold off . In addition I believe that no social discounted homes should be sold on the open market for at least 10 years. They should be sold back to the council. As it was many homes were resold within a matter of months and then the owners went back on the council list. I know of a councillor who did that three times .
As far as this new scheme is concerned I think it is wrong because it will help to keep prices high . Prices have been steadily falling in my area and the developers have cut the asking price by 25% which resulted in them being sold after standing empty for 2/3 years. That downward trend will stop if 95% mortgages are available. So Icg76 You are partly right # Do The Tories Ever Learn?# No they don't but neither did Labour.

Quizmonster

It's clear, Mod, that no government can totally escape censure if the country is struck by a recession, so to that extent, Labour does have to take a proportion of the blame. Only an idiot would deny that. Accordingly, I am in no danger whatsoever "of losing (my) left wing credentials", as you suggest, given that I have never claimed the twonks who run our banks were solely to blame. The nuttiest element here, though...even nuttier than Shapps...is the fact that we are STILL allowing them to go on robbing us blind!

Quizmonster

I forgot to mention above that, whatever you may feel Thatcher achieved, she did NOT build a "Replace It" element into her sell-off plans and that's what we're supposed to be discussing here.
My comment about your right-wing tendencies was based on the fact that we have NEVER...apart from some slight agreement on this very thread... been on the same side in any political discussion here on AnswerBank that I can recall and I know which side I'M on!

bednobs

i absolutely agree with 70 year old widowed pensioners moving out of their 3 bedroomed places and downsizing. After all, they are only renting, it is not "their" house. I can't afford to live in a place that is bigger than i need, so why should they live in a place bigger than they need, when there are loads of families waiting to move in. they had their turn when they had kids living at hom etc. If you want to be sure you stay in the same place for ever and ever, buy it!

modeller

Quiz Ah well I certainly can't argue with someone who KNOWS they are on the right side. The only side I'm on is the UK and vote for whom I think is best for the UK at the time. I have never voted or argued purely on party dogma.

If I think neither party has the answer then I protest by voting for a party that best voices my major concern, which is Europe . So at the moment I vote for UKIP.

emmie

is this social engineering, or worse a jealous snipe at someone who has made their home in a council property and continues to live in it. Why should the 70 old be shuffled out and to where, away from their friends, family or community. Try finding a smaller property in the same location, nigh on impossible. Perhaps some would prefer all the elderly to downsize, but seeing as how one has paid rent all that time, and got nothing to show for it, but the roof over your head, why should you be made to move. For those who have bought their homes and can afford to downsize if they wish good on them, some of us haven't been as fortunate.

ladybirder

modeller, I thought people weren't allowed to sell their council house for at least three years(?) after they had bought it so how did the case you quote come about?

modeller

bednobs . I saw that happening in Russia and the distress it caused. Is that what you want ?

emmie

modeller, the answer must be yes, it's a faulty logic i am afraid, and one if implemented would cause real distress for many, and not just the elderly.

modeller

ladybirder I don't know the details he was a councillor and no doubt played the system. There was also a case in the paper recently where someone rented out their council house whilst living in their own home elsewhere. Another reported case is that many people living near the Olympic venue are renting out their council houses . I expect you read about the boss of the United Union is living in a subsidised council house whilst earning a salary of £130k plus all his union perks.

ladybirder

Yes modeller I have ready about the cases you mention and it makes my blood boil. But going back to your original point it was just that I was sure you had to wait 3 years after purchase before you could sell your ex council house. Of course I could be wrong.

Quizmonster

Mod, I've never claimed that I KNOW which is the right side, only that I know which side I am ON by and large. That's not even remotely the same thing. The most rabid Man U fan may be prepared to admit that - on a given occasion - Rooney did indeed foul the Arsenal player, for example.
(Your own last sentence addressed to me above speaks volumes!)

But what the hey! I'll leave it at that.

bednobs

yes, it is what i want. if you are in rented accommodation, there is always the possibility that you will have to move, and i don't see why it should be different in social housing which is just rented accom after all. Social housing is there for people who can't for whatever reason get their own place or are in real need, so they can't then refuse to move IMO.
there is a person on here that has been waiting for some years for a bigger house for her disabled kids. I don't think it's fair that when a family is in real need, some person on their own is sitting in a huge house cause they always lived there and just don't want to move! I think it's your logic that's flawed, that you get a house that suits your needs, then it doesn't suit your needs anymore, but you just stay there anyway!

ladybirder

I agree with bednobs as I've said on here before. A council house is not yours for life, you are renting it and if somebody else needs it more than you then I'm afraid you have to give it up. People on the waiting list should be given the same chance as you had and it's selfish to hang on to it. I've had to downsize, indeed I wanted to downsize. Who wants to keep cleaning a large house in their dotage. And if I was in a council house that was too large for me then I would move willingly.

do the tories ever learn?

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