Wrong on so many levels?

[d9f1c7]

How can Islam expect anything but disdain from the civilised world when this sort of thing happens? Traditional practice apparently!
http://news.sky.com/h...news/article/16189226

[naomi24]

Pixi, I couldn't think of a better descriptive word than 'Kosher' - and I wouldn't dream of putting words into your mouth. Nevertheless, your link was selective googling - and if you don't understand that, try clicking on other links.

[doctordb]

Oh ed. tell me you didn't smile just a little bit.

[NOX]

We all 'selectively' google to make our point though Naomi, you do it all the time, so do I, so does anyone debating on here.
It's a terrible scenario, but as a few people not just pixi have pointed out it's a cultural thing and not one proscribed by Islam itself. As for Islam influencing the countries laws, of course it does, but it is people's interpretations of what they read that appear to be the issue as it is with most fundamentalists.
The other interesting point is similar social pressures exist with all the abramic religions in the middle east, the same ' shame upon your family' rubbish with ultra orthodox Jews as well and I'd be fairly sure Christians in the middle east too. Since this doesn't happen in Europe overly much, you have to logically draw the conclusion that you are delaing with the traditions of a tribal society rather than the teachings of a doctrine that a lot of it's less fundamental members are trying to modernise.

[naomi24]

//you have to logically draw the conclusion that you are delaing with the traditions of a tribal society …..//

I agree – which brings me back to the point I’ve already made. Where do those traditions come from? As any Muslim will tell you, Islam is not just a religion, it’s a way of life – and it finds justification for its actions – good or bad – solely from within its literature.

[NOX]

I think you will find though Naomi that the tribal society predates Islam by a fair way- and equally Islam is not repsonsible for the unpleasant practices that ultra orthodox Jews get up to either- who do a lovely turn on enforced marriages.
I'm not a religious apologist at all, but at the end of the day PEOPLE and their choices are responsible for these atrocities, not any one religious dogma.

[emmie]

i read this yesterday, appalling, and as you say wrong on every level.

[boxtops]

This is cultural practice, not religious - Morocco happens to be an Islamic country but as others have said, it's not a religious edict so don't slam Islam for this, it's the custom in that part of the country. Wrong on so many points, but it's not a religious decision, it's local practice.

[emmie]

zeuhl, if many muslims move here to get away from these practices, then why do they continue on in Britain, including the despicable female genital mutilation.

[NOX]

Because you will always have evil INDIVIDUALS of every persuasion Em, be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu or Atheist- it's just horrible human nature.

[emmie]

so it's a minority of people, not just a widespread thing, sorry to disappoint you, but with GFM that is practiced widely and happens in Britain, it's cultural, religious, and despicable as i said. And quite frankly i thought Britain was moving towards a modern society, some hope that is, where women don't get forced into marriage, or punished for being raped, this is just one case, how many more that are not in the papers.

[NOX]

So you really think the majority of British Muslims allow female gential mutilation to be performed on their daughters? How ridiculous. It does happen here but is hardly ' widespread' when you consider the sheer volume of Muslims in this country, who mostly also find it barbaric.

[emmie]

http://www.independen...tilation-1845731.html

you should read down the article, the figures are horrifying, not just a few women, time for this country to damn well wake up to what is happening to young girls, women.

[emmie]

from the article

An estimated 70,000 women living in the UK have undergone FGM, and 20,000 girls remain at risk, according to Forward. The practice is common in 28 African countries, including Somalia, Sudan and Nigeria, as well as some Middle Eastern and Asian countries such as Malaysia and Yemen. It is generally considered to be an essential rite of passage to suppress sexual pleasure, preserve girls' purity and cleanliness, and is necessary for marriage in many communities even now.

[boxtops]

em - again, this isn't condoned by Islam, it's not a religious practice, it's cultural. I have many Muslim friends who wouldn't entertain the idea of putting their daughters through this. Where it happens, it's primitive custom and practice - not a religious requirement.

[NOX]

Em, there are nearly 3 million Muslims living in Britain, therefore it is definiatly a minority practice, albeit a vile one.

[boxtops]

again - not Muslim, cultural from the lands of their origins. Nothing to do with Islam.

[AB Editor]

Morning,

Just so everyone is aware, Rymnt was banned (again) as a long term abusive user on this site. Not because he disagrees with the editorial practices here.

And to reiterate, it's not what you say, but how you say it which will get you banned.

All the best,

Ed

[naomi24]

Nox, Yes, other cultures do practice traditions that we find strange and sometimes abhorrent – and I don’t believe anyone here is suggesting that Islam is in any way responsible for that. In fact Islam takes many of its traditions (as well as much of its book) directly from the Jews. However, two wrongs don’t make a right - and in this instance the question relates to Islam, the actions of which are, as I said, always justified by its literature.

And incidentally, with regard to female circumcision, it isn’t condoned by all Muslims by any means, thank goodness, but those who do practice it find religious justification for it, so to say it’s simply cultural and nothing to do with Islam is simply wrong. From the hadith:

“A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (pbuh) said to her: Do not cut too severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.”

And there’s more where that came from. You might also be interested in this thread:

http://www.theanswerb...uestion1080630-1.html

[pdust]

*Still, the thought that it might not be exactly 'kosher' (sorry 'bout that) amused you, so no problem*

*and I wouldn't dream of putting words into your mouth*

but you did naomi... i was laughing at you saying i did a selective google.... i didnt laugh that it may not be 'kosher' as you put it....

you have said time and time again that people wont discuss things on here...one of the very first times i do join in you accuse me of selective googling for one point and then tell me im not qualified to comment (or whatever you said) for another point i made.... i wont bother again.....

[Seadragon]

This is such a sad story....on 'so many levels.'

The girl was let down by her family as well as the legal system. What a Prosecutor is doing advising her to marry and telling her to 'Go and make the marriage contract' is beyond me?

And it is stated that the rapist 'refused and only consented when faced with Prosecution.' (I am only pointing this out to highlight the flaws of the law) It further states that the 'Judge can only recommend marriage in the case of agreement by the victim and both families......It is rare.'

The girl was let down by her family and the legal system. If anything comes from her unnecessarily early death at her own hands it is a progressive change in the Legal system and the need for parents to support their daughters, wrongfully abused, in a male dominated society.