Christians complain of being marginalised - is it an example of why they should be?

[sp1814]

This happened in the US, but increasingly in the UK, we're seeing a similar move towards the right, whereas as a nation we are deserting the church (look at falling numbers actually worshipping on Sundays) and politically, we're moving towards the centre (as evidenced by the failure of any extreme left or extreme right party during the last two elections).

http://www.dailymail....n-rescinded--gay.html

Why do Christians keep shooting themselves in the foot in this way? It's just so unnecessary...

[sp1814]

naomi24

Ignore my point about my mate Selwan. I misunderstood your point (thought you were implying that all Muslims were the same, whereas after re-reading, I think what you mean is that there are no variations in Islam - which, I must say, I am also very skeptical of...).

[emmie]

Just because they don't come across as hellfire imams doesn't mean to say they do not have those beliefs.

[humbersloop]

If that means what you read in the daily wail isn't true, who's going to break it to aog? ;)

[sandyRoe]

Could you, Humber? Break it to him gently, though.

[jno]

just so, sp1814. Some people have the odd idea that religious people are robots, every second of their lives dominated by some sentence from a holy book or an order from a mullah. Life just isn't like that. People are no more full-time Muslims than they are full-time gays or full-time librarians. It's just one facet of their make-up - one of a great number.

[naomi24]

jno, //do you really imagine Muslims as one worldwide mass, liiving and breathing and thinking and acting in unison? //

No, I don't, and like Nox, I have Muslim friends who are charming. That said, many Muslims are far from charming - and excusing what they do does not make them any more charming.

SP, there are variations in Islam - but not in the same way, and nowhere near the extent - as those in Christianity.

[humbersloop]

A kindly thought sandy, thank you. x

Now picture the scene....

[Brenden]

Come on humbersloop, aog has not posted a thread on this and yet you have named him, he probably does not want to be involved in this - be fair.

[emmie]

that's also what i thought, don't drag him in, he hasn't made a comment and may not, perhaps he has better things to do with his time.

[emmie]

And i have had Muslim friends, colleagues, who were charming and very nice people. I didn't know their private lives so much as they kept themselves very much to themselves.

[humbersloop]

If protocol's been breached, then that's me told.

[jake-the-peg]

Now I'm facinated Naomi

What do mean by the variations in Islam are not in the same way or the extent as in Christianity.

The differences between legalistic Sunni and the whirling dirvishes of Suffism seen light years apart to me

[emmie]

unwritten rule if you like, seems only fair.

[sp1814]

This thread has somehow become about Muslims, and I'll be damned if I can tell how that happened.

naomi24 - maybe you and I are in the same boat. I only know about two kinds of Muslim - the ones who are in my personal life, whom I recognise as having exactly the same human traits as everyone else (lazy, funny, intelligent, clumsy, shy, boastful, well dressed, forgetful etc) and 'Telly Muslims' who you only see on News At Ten, normally burning an effigy of someone.

Wouldn't you say that there's a possibly that we see Muslims in such linear terms because on tv, that's all we're presented with?

[naomi24]

SP, //there are variations in Islam - but not in the same way, and nowhere near the extent as those in Christianity. //

Same with Judaism, actually.

[sp1814]

Also - who IS it that's in charge of building those effigies? In the old days, they used to make some effort...a few weeks ago, I saw one on Sky News...it was supposed to be Barack Obama - looked more like Jimmy Kramkie.

Pull your socks up boys.

[naomi24]

Jake, //What do mean by the variations in Islam are not in the same way or the extent as in Christianity.

The differences between legalistic Sunni and the whirling dirvishes of Suffism seen light years apart to me//

I’ve already explained that. There are hundreds of varieties of Christianity.

SP, sorry, we cross posted there. Without going into detail, television images are not all I am presented with.

[sp1814]

naomi24

I get what you're saying now.

Seriously - I understand...I don't know enough about Islam to say you're right, but at least now, I 'get it'.

I think you're saying that Islam, like Judiasm or the Mormon religious is based on text which is less open to interpretation that Christianity, which has splintered into thousands of different sects.

Is that right?

[NOX]

Naomi might be right in assuming that judaism and Islam hasn't splintered into ' hndreds of sects' like chritianity has, but she's very wrong if she thinks that there are no polar opposites within either religion- the harline fundamentalists and the liberal are further apart than ever the chritians are from one another, especially actually within Judaism.

[emmie]

i don't go by what i see on the TV either, look around me, note what is going on, talk with people from different backgrounds, faiths and so on. But i would say this, I see more women than ever wearing the full Burkha, veiled, and often trudging behind their menfolk, this doesn't sit well with me
i am afraid. But that as they say is enough for now.